More Laying of of Hands
We are discussing a few of those elementary things that we should all be
agreeing on so that we can move on to perfection. We should be leaving
the foundational doctrines like Paul suggested, but how can we? As I
mentioned before, the belief in the power in laying on of hands is a
proper plumbline to separate the faithful from the faithless. There
should not be disagreement in this and faith is now the issue. Let's
leave it up to the spirit of truth to bring us to one accord, please
pray that this is done.
My comments are without the quotes.
"Do we really have even a mustard seed of faith? Or have we become a
"faithless and perverse generation" with whom Jesus must contend?....
And the faith He is urging us towards is not a faith tempered by human
wisdom, better judgment or good sense, it is a radical faith that rest
wholly on the promise of God's goodwill towards us. Period."
This, I believe, is where we should be. Yes, we have become a faithless
and perverse generation. Faith should be radical. You know me, I believe
in the latter rain outpouring - it is radical.
"Having seen many occasions where subjective excess has led to error, I
tend to stay on the conservative side of the supernatural realities of
our faith....The idea that we can "feel" the Holy Spirit is really in
many ways a New Age Gnosticism.... having been slain in the spirit, I
somehow posess a deeper revelation of God than the stoic
conservative.... whether stated or merely implied, the idea is there..."
Radical faith and conservative faith are not the same thing, they are on
opposite sides of faith. Radical faith will have signs and wonders
following and will serve as a witness to the unbelievers and will be
experiential. A view that would hold on to both is neither hot nor cold
but luke-warm. Jesus was not conservative with his faith, or His
compassion, or His love for us. He did not hold back or show partiality
but "He laid His hands on every one of them, and healed them." Jesus did
not condemn those with little faith but He did remind them of the fact.
A conservative faith is in smug self-satisfaction where nothing more is
needed. I know from experience that those that are slain in the spirit
arise in humility not pride, not arising with a deeper revelation but in
the thirst for more faith in awe of the power. It is the purpose here to
stimulate our faith so that when Jesus comes, there will be faith on the
earth and we will be ready to meet Him. Marsha sent this prophecy out
today: "Let the barriers of self-protection and self-focus come down so
that you become a vessel of honor useful in My kingdom to see, hear,
love, give and speak to those I send you to. There is much work to be
done, but I cannot use a vessel whose lid fits so tightly that I cannot
pour into it or out of it." I remember a prophecy about living waters
and that we have become broken vessels that can hold no water. Stephen
also sent a bulletin today, "Many of you have a faith in Me, but you
have denied the power therein." Do not be conservative with your faith,
release it in abundance and do not despise those that experience the
power.
Not only faith is at issue but power. We have been discussing God's
power transmitted through our hands. Jesus also said "according to your
faith be it unto you." The question is of faith, of the person
transmitting the power and the person receiving it. Not all of us can or
should be doing it. Here is an example:
"The following is what happened, when someone lay their hands on a man
with an unclean spirit (suddenly, without using wisdom).
A dear brother was drawn by compassion, to pray for a man at the alter.
He did lay hands on the man, and prayed for him. That night, after he
had lay hands on this particular individual, he had the most unrestful
sleep. He had gory dreams, and visions of sexual perversion and
mutilation in these dreams. This went on for days. Then, he remembered
the man he had prayed for. He asked God to forgive him for not waiting
on God's direction and he repented of moving in self. He prayed that if
there was any thing that had attached it's self to him to leave. He had
others praying in agreement with him on this. Afterward, he was released
from further torment of anymore awful dreams.
Months later, another young man came to us with the same thing happening
to him. He was being tormented with the same sexual dreams with
mutilation in them, which was very disturbing to a Christian man. He
was desperate for them to stop. During prayer, God revealed that he had
prayed for this particular man with the unclean spirit. After he was
asked, he quickly
answered, "Yes, in fact, I did, and that is when it all started, come to
think of it." Well, after prayer, he too was relieved of the terrible
fitful nights filled with awful dreams.
Later it was discovered that the man both these men had been compelled
to pray for, was in a satanic cult. Now, I tend to learn better with
experience. I was witness to both these situations, and believe that we
should lay hands suddenly (without the unction of the Holy Spirit) on no
man..."
Now we should agree that we should not lay hands on others without the
power, that would not be wise but foolish and pretentious. The only
thing that I lay hands on is my keyboard but when the sickle is fully
into the harvest, things will change for many of us. We should desire to
have enough faith to be able to resist anything that the devil would
come against us. That power is real as well. The disciples did not
always have enough power, Jesus told them some only come out by fasting
and prayer. Would I show partiality to the man in a satanic cult? No,
but I would want to have the power and the prophetic discernment to be
able to cast out the demons within him or I have no business laying
hands on him or anyone else in the first place. We should have the power
to resist the devil or we do not have the faith. If one does not have
that power, then we should all agree that there should be discernment as
to who we lay our hands on. Mere compassion is not enough, more faith is
needed for true impartation. We are to call upon the elders of the
church, not the novices.
These things were also mentioned:
"I can't buy that there is any way to partake of another's sin simply
because you've laid hands on them and prayed for their healing. That
rubs against everything our precious Savior and Lord Christ Jesus is
about. There is so much fear abiding in the Church now that should be
dispelled."
Also:
"I do not believe "evil spirits" can be transmitted back into a well
meaning, faithful disciple of Christ who in faith lays hands upon
another in prayer, either for healing, deliverance or anointing."
And:
"In my understanding, God is trying to remove worldly considerations
from our choice of leaders, that we not feel pressured to ordain someone
because of worldly status or even a 'ministry opening' or need. The
message as I receive it is that the building of Gods house is not
something to take lightly, and cant be done with human wisdom. Those who
think because they
have the office of 'apostle' or 'prophet' and can now choose whom they
want to be on their 'team' are close to violating this command. We do
not become the head of the body when we are a ministry to the church, we
become a gift to the church by our sensitivity and obedience to Gods'
leading by the Holy Spirit..."
The next is an excerpt from James who we should pray for. Excercise your
faith, stretch out your hands in the name of Jesus in faith believing. I
also have a degenerative neck condition, pray for me.
"I've wanted to respond to this and have had no time till now. I have
gone through two neck surgeries in the past year (and I got the news
today that I may have to have another neck surgery since the last one
did not work as hoped) and have suffered from a degenerative disk
disease for almost ten years, and have had a number of devout people lay
hands on me. This spring I was scheduled for low back surgery and just
prior to going in I went to a church that was in renewal and had
actively been seeking the Presence of God for almost ten years. The week
before the incident I am going to describe, people laid hands on me and
prayed for me who did not know my condition but a word of prophecy came
to some that I was in need of prayer, something deep of God happened,
all the nerves in my legs that normally hurt in excruciating pain began
to vibrate in a pain free manner, and I was asked to come back again.
The next week an itinerant Pastor was there and at the end of his sermon
he asked any one that felt something start to happen when he began to
preach to come up and receive healing from the Holy Spirit, ( I had
started to shake), I did so and a number of people laid hands on me and
prayed for me as I stood shaking. Then an elder of the Church and (I
found our later one of the few who was still there since before the
church started into renewal in 1992) put his hands on my temples and
said softly "In the name of Jesus release," I initially felt my legs and
the nerves therein contract and then there was a surge through my body
and I was launched upwards and back about four feet (I'm six two and
weigh 250)
where I was caught. I lay on the floor for about an hour with all the
nerves in my body quivering and shaking and doing so as they had in the
past but without any pain what so ever. The low back surgery is put off
maybe for good. I had people lay hands on me many time previous to this
and since then, but with no effect like this save others who have had
an obvious anointing.
Could not this "suddenly" that I Timothy 5:22, "Lay hands suddenly on no
man." really mean without the office of the Holy Spirit? "suddenly" is
tacheos which comes from the adverb tachus which can mean "of uncertain
affinity" I think it really means in a thoughtful manner by people who
know God and know what He is doing.
"I still shake when I worship now, since that time seven months ago and
people who are anointed can lay hands on me and there is a powerful
exchange and people who are not anointed nothing happens. I think in the
book of James when the Lord's brother tells the elders to lay hands and
pour oil on those that are ill it is an admonition to do so by men and
women of God who have been called to do so and know God wants them to do
so through the Holy spirit. I must admit also that I have had people
lay hands on me and I felt worse afterward. It comes down always to the
fact that human hands that are laying on the person needing help can do
nothing until the Hand of the Almighty is then upon them all and change
and healing take place. And I know that can happen at any time anointed
or not. It is His will and His Holiness that heals us. Sometimes His
hand is
present and sometimes it is just simply our own faithfully stretching
forward as we think we should. Knowing that His hand is there sometimes
is enough for me." (James)
May God bless us all and increase our faith in the year to come.
Jay.
December 29, 1999
Just received some great responses to my last post, much too much to
list it all. Let me just paste some excerpts along with my responses and
see where we go from here. Forgive me if I do not forward everything, do
not feel slighted, there were many more good things. If you feel that
everything that you say should be forwarded feel free to "reply all."
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