In Spirit and In Truth

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:23

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5.

We may be able to explain the resurrection from the dead in a spiritual sense rather than the physical. There has been much confusion regarding the first resurrection in that it just does not fit with current interpretations given to explain judgment. At least, not in my mind, but I may be more confused than most. Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians explains that 15:41-46

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

So, the natural first and then the spiritual, at least from our perspective of things. That means that the Adamic nature was of the living flesh and our Jesus nature is of the living spirit. When we are brought into that spiritual nature, we are resurrected from the dead. It has been explained this way by others in the group previously in our discussion of judgment resurrections. Is this then, the first resurrection that we are speaking of in Revelation 20 which the second death hath no power? The scripture go on to say that "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." If so, it would explain a lot but I am not yet convinced that there is not another resurrection of those in the grave before the millennium, we know that the general resurrection will come at the end of the thousand years. It could explain the Gog and Magog confusion in that we are mistakenly waiting for a first before the second when they could be the same things spoken of here. But would this not mean also that Armageddon, the second coming, the last trump and satanic deception and Gog and Magog at the end of the thousand years and even the general resurrection are all part of the same Day of the Lord? For that to be true, we would have to chuck all of our pre-millennial notions out the window and take up where other traditions have left off. Like I say, I am not yet ready to do that but the more I study it, the more confused I get and the more determined I am to get at the roots of truth. Outside of these things and admitting ignorance, the responses concerning Gog and Magog can only be dismissed as speculation.

What is the significance here? For most of us that are to be readied as the spotless bride that Jesus will be coming for, this discussion is probably moot but for the rest of us that will be given the mysteries to know the kingdom of God in these last days, it is an essential part of unraveling them. We are to be among the Son of Man that will be prophesying against Gog and Magog. Is that now or a thousand years from now? I believe that it is now, regardless of any millennial interpretations and the prophets that God will be speaking through will be prepared to know the significance of what is happening.

At any rate, the overwhelming consensus of the discussion this time is that our understanding of these things must come forth with spiritual interpretations but like Paul said, the physical first and then the spiritual and this is precisely what we have been saying. We have the old law on tables of stone and the new law on our hearts. Old Israel was circumcised in the flesh, the New Israel is circumcised in the heart. The sound of thunder on Mount Sinai as the presence of God and the sound of a mighty rushing wind at Pentecost, The construction of a physical temple for God to dwell in which has been fulfilled for the nation of Israel in the flesh, then the construction of the body of Christ with many members as living temples of the Holy Spirit. The kingdom on earth and a kingdom in heaven. And then the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and the corresponding destruction of the unity of the body of Christ into harlot brides and denominating harems that comprise a spiritual Babylon that corresponds to a previous physical Babylonian captivity.

Physical and spiritual fulfillments are not so hard to understand, are they? So why all the confusion? There are those responding to the question that have it worked out, not me yet; but I do realize that we are getting closer. The only way that we can come to any agreement is for most of us to put away any pre-conceived notions. For some, this is not possible; for myself, I am more opened minded on the subject than ever. I have to be honest with you; some of my sacred cows are about to be turned into hamburger. I need to emphasize that we need much more dialectic and for some, much less dogmatism.

When Jesus appeared to the disciples, He gave them His spirit but also told them to tarry and wait for the spirit to come in power before they went and became His witnesses. The word witness comes from the same Greek word that martyr comes from. If we are not to die for the Lord in the flesh, we should at least die to the flesh to be able to take upon His spirit. This is not an automatic thing, repent and be baptized is the admonition, not baptized only for the forgiveness of sins and of your faith in the risen Lord but - Repent! Without the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, you do not have the authority to be His witnesses and to work in His power. Jesus must not only be in us, we are to be in Him to take upon that spiritual nature. No longer is it we who live but Jesus living His will and life through us. In unity, we become the Bride that will draw all men unto Him. It is past time to call that solemn assembly. Let's get on with putting together the assembly that can be called.

At the last supper, Jesus said, "I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God." He did just that and ate and taught and walked with the disciples for six weeks after He had died and rose again. We eat and drink with Him in the spirit every time that we commune together in His name. The Kingdom is here, is there a kingdom on earth to come also? I believe so, am I wrong? That kingdom will not come until we start living in the kingdom now, as God would have us do. Confused or not, we must do it together in loving unity.

Get back to me. What is that kingdom to come? Is there a kingdom to come on earth for a thousand years? Or are we already in it as far as it goes and we only wait for the heavenly calling? We have been reminded below of the Revelation 20 and 21 scriptures that there will be a new heaven and a new earth AFTER the 1000 year reign. What does that do to our understanding of what we have been taught of the millennial kingdom to come after the second coming? What scriptural proof can we bring to the discussion that tells us that there is in fact a thousand year millennium kingdom to come?


While Babylon is waiting for something physical, delusion blinds them to what is happening in the spiritual realm."

Jay, these are powerful words of truth. They stood out as the essence of all that was being said. Here is what I mean...

I fully support the spiritual desolation rather than a physical one in a restored temple. I think that many christians are waiting for the temple to be rebuilt but I speculate that it will never be rebuilt. It is past, over, not relevant. Jesus said this temple will be pulled down and rebuild in three days (Matt 24). The disciples thought He meant the physical temple, but of course He was talking about the Cornerstone of the spiritual temple. All that pertains to the temple is spiritual and for that reason, carnal (includes christians) men can not see the temple or discern the times because they are missing what is really happening in the Spirit. They may well oppose and support the work of the spiritual AntiChrist which is the Flesh dressed up in spiritual "clothes". It is the carnal church which is spiritually desolate, and bearing no eternal fruit. The people Jesus opposed the most where the Pharisees because they where carnal (in the flesh). That is why I feel your words (While Babylon is waiting for something physical, delusion blinds them to what is happening in the spiritual realm.) form the essence of the warning given to those with eyes to see in Matt 24.

I my book "A Journey In The Wilderness" I propose that there will be a war between the Spirit-Led Church and the Carnal (Flesh) Church, similar to the way the Pharisees persecuted and murdered Jesus and many first century Christians. It is carnal believers that the true church has the most to fear. The flesh is at enmity with the Spirit. The Anti-Christ will be a Christian who says all the right things but in the end will murder and persecute those who walk in the Spirit. This is why he (the antichrist) will be so difficult to discern in the beginning. Even the world will follow him and christians will claim this as a victory for the Kingdom. Judas was one of the disciples yet he was a devil (Jesus' description). I come back to your statement about missing the true meaning of what is going on because people will think that this man is actually bringing forth the Kingdom of God. When He has everyone believing He is a "Godly believer" he will turn on the true church. Only those with spiritual eyes will be able to see the anti-christ for who He is. Believing in Jesus will not be enough, we must walk in the Spirit, or we will be deceived.

By-the-way, I see the House Church Movement as a sign of the times. The Lord is preparing the church to go underground. It may be 20 years away or more, but it is part of His survival plan. Globalism is a key element in the end events. It will give the control and power to surveille every person. You will not be able to buy or sell without there being a record of it. The Beast is the global system which controls every transaction and every resource. Christians will have a hard-time surviving outside that system yet those who see it for what it is must find the grace from God to defy the system. House churches will be spiritual units/families which will provide for one another. They will demonstrate real sacrifical love for one another and thereby glorify God.

This sounds all so difficult, terrible and threatening, but Jesus put it all in perspective when He said, this is the birth pains of the Kingdom of God being birthed on the earth. We must look through the pains of delivery to the glory and victory and beauty of the Father's lordship over the whole earth.


Paul Weigel


What you are saying here Paul, is the closest response that I have found to where I think we need to be going in understanding and identifying the Anti-christ to come. Although I do not deny that there may be a physical temple being built, it is the spiritual temple that will decide who is who in the kingdom. What you point out is what needs to be stressed and that the interpretations have come from the flesh, not the spirit. Those that come up with these end-time theories and books and web sites that focus so much on the physical interpretations are misleading others as well as themselves.

I get all kinds of different end-time theories and that is OK because all voices need to be heard but what I am especially attracted to are the interpretations that fulfill the spiritual fulfillments. While many await some kind of tattoo or bar-code technology to come along on their flesh, their mind is being taken over by the worship of the materialistic delusions that they are not even aware of. While others tell us of the building materials being stockpiled in Jerusalem, they ignore the fact that there will be a New Jerusalem coming out of Heaven.

I keep having this vision of a person that God has led into being like the Bereans. He wants so much to do the will of God and loves the Lord and respects and searches what the Bible says but is so deceived by the false prophets that come in the flesh that he is in danger of being among the called but not chosen. How many people are like this? Solomon writes that we are to trust in the Lord and lean not unto our own understanding but look at all the strange voices out there judging and condemning those that teach the prophetic and wanting to listen to the Lord and speak only His voice. They think that spiritual gifts died when the Bible was completed as if God no longer speaks to us any more. The fact is that God does not speak to them because they do not have ears to hear and so they listen to the ones that speak in the flesh according to their spiritual delusions and private interpretations and then fight against the chosen remnant called to restore this spiritual temple as if we are a cult. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, they can't fight against this spirit, it is a losing battle. Jesus has already won the war but they go around warring in the flesh anyway. What a terrible waste of God's people.

What is to happen to these kinds of Christians in the end? They will fall with Babylon and miss the promise. If they are so captivated by their own delusion that they cannot endure sound teaching, then more importantly, what is our message to warn them of the wrath to come and get some oil in their lamps? Ignore them? Without ears to hear, they are unable to listen. I suppose that the bottom line is the love and humility that we are teaching that will draw them but if they cannot love and cannot put away their own pride now, then we must wait until something happens in the future that will vindicate God's people. His true sheep are already hearing His voice but the anti-christ spirit will seek to destroy the prophetic spirit of Jesus that proceeds through our own temples and many of us will be persecuted and slandered. God also tells us that we will be protected, I know that I am not afraid but for some, this is a victory over death, many of us will be killed and I believe that it will come because we have the courage to speak out against the injustice, exploitation and oppression of the globalization that you speak of here in your letter. This is where the Anti-christ will reveal himself.

The biggest problem right now is the fear and complacency from the people of God that have already heard from Him on these things. There is more to it here than delusion, it is just plain laziness and lack of faith. Although many people are taking the trumpet to their lips and sounding the alarm, others go home to business as usual in the comfort of their own luke-warm surroundings. I appreciate what you have written in your book. It is one of the few that I have read lately that I can recommend.

Stay blessed,


Dear Brethren,

I like you have much to learn of the Lord. There is much that I confess I do not know, but I do know that the Lord is our teacher. I want to share what I believe the scripture is referring to in Daniel. I know I need to search it out more carefully, but here we go anyway. Let us consider the scripture in Daniel.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Daniel 9:27.

Now let us use the scripture to search out what is being said here in Daniel. Let us look at the term desolation. Below in Mathew 23, Jesus tells the Jews that their house is left to them desolate, speaking of the Jewish temple.

Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Matt 23:34-38 34 (KJV)

In Mathew 24, he tells his disciples that not one stone shall be left upon this Old Testament House or Temple.

Matt 24:1-2 1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.(KJV)

IN John 4:24, we see that the natural Jerusalem is no longer the place of regard or worship of God, but that it has been moved from the Natural to the Spiritual.

John 4:20-24 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (KJV)

In summary, the desolation came up on the Old Jewish order. The glory of God has forever left this temple. We see that in John 2, when Jesus went into the Temple he said destroy the temple and in three days I will raise it again. However, he no longer was speaking of an earthly temple or order, but the temple which is his body. This temple is declared all through the New Testament. One reference is Ephesians 2: 17-22, with the believer being built into the building for a habitation of God, by the Spirit.

Now concerning the term abomination in Daniel. Let us consider what is abominable in God's sight.

Isa 1:9-15 9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. 10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? 13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. 14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. (KJV)

Here we see Israel and its ordinance had become an abomination unto God. In Hebrews we see what all of these ordinances spoke of. Here we see that the sacrifice was forever cut off. There remains no more sacrifice for Sins, for Jesus made one complete sacrifice. All of the old sacrifices was speaking of the body that the Lord bore in his death, making a completion of the First Covenant and bringing in the Everlasting Covenant, which we that are in Christ are now enjoying.

Heb 10:1-15 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (KJV)

Below are some scriptures relating to the Everlasting Covenant that is made sure in Christ Jesus our Lord. Note in Ezekiel, God says he will put his temple and sanctuary in the midst of Israel. Then Note what Paul writes in II Corinthians 6:16

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
This is the fulfillment of what God had said in Ezekiel. It is fulfilled in the Lord Jesus, and manifest in the Church which is his body the fullness of him.

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. 41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul. Jer 32:40-41 40 (KJV)

Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. Ezek 37:26-28 26 (KJV)

Heb 13:20-21 20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. (KJV)

Bless the Lord Jesus Christ!

Wayne Shelton


That's great Wayne, and the way that we must be looking at these fulfillments. This is the direction that this discussion is taking, bringing it out of the fleshly, physical, natural and carnal realm and into the spiritual interpretations of what Jesus taught. We are circumcised in the heart not the flesh.

I would add that In Matthew 23 that Jesus was speaking concerning the present condition of the scribes and the Pharisees that were sitting in Moses' seat at that time, meaning the physical state of Judah at the time of Christ. Those words were give as an example of the legalistic way of thinking of what not to follow and that they must be cleansed. You are right; the desolation came upon the Old Jewish order. Matthew 24 however looks toward the future. Jesus spoke of the destruction of the physical temple, which was accurately fulfilled but added that the end is not yet, pushing fulfillments into the remote future. I really like what you are saying here in that we are the tabernacle and this is the worship in spirit and truth that we are taught and where our interpretations must proceed from. The abomination of desolation at first glance seems to be fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem but He is talking about enduring to the end, not the end of Jerusalem but rather following a time when the gospel shall be preached unto all nations and then a tribulation period with the powers of the heavens shall be shaken that have not been even remotely fulfilled yet. We are to see these things happen all in one generation, not the first century generation but our generation. We are in the time of the restoration of the spiritual temple, not the destruction of the physical one. We are yet to see many of these things happening but consider this: the first trumpet has sounded and the angels of heaven are gathering His people right now to bring in the sheaves of the final harvest. We shall see all these things come to pass. Hallelujah!

Good work, thanks,


Your question is How can we engage in a war after the 1000 year reign of peace?

My perspective is this is a very unnatural engagement; "Spiritual against the Natural"

Is this really a war or just a clean-up of dead carcasas? They, (The armies of the world), will be destroyed before the New Jerusalem even touches the ground. Rev. 20:9 Fire will come down out of Heaven and devour them. Period. Then the Judgment and the following preceedings of hell and the lake of fire. When all is said and done then the New Jerusalem as a Bride comes down out of heaven.

Rev.19 is a more indepth view of Christ on a horse slaying the armies of the world like a sword out of His mouth but, their is no indication that the armies who followed Him will physically engage in war or battle. This would be absurd Spiritual and natural battle against each other would be a joke. If God be-fore us who could stand?


Jay, I haven't spent the time and research you have done but, I hope this adds a new perspective......................Brother Mark Heistand

Hi Jay,

Found your email on my old hotmail connection and decided to answer you and share with you what I know- consider it for now.

Firstly, you are wise enough now to consider Dan. 9:27 for surely it will come to pass and I believe someday soon. Also that you are kickin around various angles of how it will reveal itself is essential. Yet know this- this is 'end of days' delusion brought to the highest level imaginable and thus most will never get it! Also we as believes in Yehoshua (Jesus) should watch ourselves that we also do not fall into the trap of- prefering to see and thereby believe in what is comfortable to ourselves (The easiest way is usually the 'widest' and thus not the right way!)

For myself I used to do Christian tours of the temple mount (Mt. Moriah) and am fairly familiar with the histories and schools of thought re: precisely 'where' the Jewish temple exactly stood etc.

Now for about 1200 years the Muslim's Dome o the Rock has stood upon what may yet be the actual original temple site? But what is interesting is that over the entrance of the Dome is written-' Allah is God and Mohamed is his prohet & he has no son' Your topic of- The Abomination that makes Desolate 'may' actually be the Dome o the Rock! Consider this- Jesus in Mat. 24.15 refers back to Daniel and says, "when you see the Abomination- standing in the holy place'. Now, this can be conceived of in more than one way. You could say that The Anti'christ is 'standing' in the holy place; or you could say, 'what makes desolate' is standing in the holy place! RE: back to your hist. of Antiochus and his desolating the Jews temple back in 168BCE. Note Josephus tells us, that just a few months before this the Jews had welcomed Antiochus into Jerusalem (How be it by intimdation etc.) But Antiochus did not 'desolate' the temple (with pig to Zeus) until he returned after being run out o Egypt by the up start Romans!

Consider this as you are- there is a Hebraic concept called- ''Here now, but not yet'- i.e., Jesus came once, he comes again; Rome was here, and something like Rome returns; and in more to the point would be Acts 2.- Peters quoting Joel 2.- for the holy spirit did come on Penetecost, yet the fullness of Joel's prophesy cannot take place until the 'end of days'! Therefore- I also definitely see Antiochus as a 'type' of anti-christ and he is predominantly responsible for much of Dan 8.9-14 but, Antiochus could never fulfill Dan. 8.-15- ; & 7.19- Thereby it is critical not to read into all the prophecies only one figure and demand of him that he fulfill (or re-do) something when in actuality parts of the prophesy have 'already been fulfilled' by another! Again, in all of this- Satanic delusion is so intense that Jesus in the same Mat. 24. 24 'if possible shall deceive the very elect'!

Thereby your understanding of 'we are the temple of the living God' (1 Cor. 3 & 6) is a predominate factor. Yet still and as you know- (2 Thes. 2.) he 'sitteth in the temple of God' Which to most tells them that the 'Jewish temple has to be rebuilt for this to take place? Well, well- for myself I understand the so called Jewish mind in this...somewhat. And I can tell you matter o factly that the Jews have now 'had' the temple mt. back now some 34 years and there is no temple nor any obvious realistic moves to rebuild it. Also the many Jewish 'schools o thought' cannot agree upn exactly 'where' the original location of the temple stood!

Just off the top- would it not be most deceptive to have a misinterpreted prophesy of i.e. the rebuilding of the Third Temple as crucial (So everyone would know when Jesus is coming!). But indeed the 'temple' or Abomination of Desolation has already been standing in front of us all for 1200 years! Here and else where, there is nothing wrong with the prophecy- just our own erroneous teachings etc. For myself I hold this a just another scenario and time will tell?

If you are interested to pursue this- next time I'll share with you 'the covenant' of (Dan. 9.27)

Bless you in your studies through Yehoshua ha Mashiach



Super insights Al,

I would suppose that many would think that 9:27 would refer to the destruction of Herod's temple since Jewish sacrifice did cease and it was the Jewish people that became desolate. The Dome of the Rock could be a fulfillment, in that time is short has to point to something. It could also follow that the wall mentioned in verse 25 would be rebuilt in the troublous times that we are in right now. Actually the wailing wall in Jerusalem is the only remnant left of the Old Temple. But everyone that has responded to the abomination of desolation post is united in thinking that we are to be looking for spiritual fulfillments in the restoration and like you say, a "predominate factor." I find that very fulfilling.

We are coming to the point where we must proclaim a fast and call a solemn assembly, I think that we are past time. That would be our wailing wall, it is time to rend our hearts for the vineyard of the Lord has been producing sour grapes. Quit singing praise songs and start singing the blues. If we are to be a new thing with a new song, we must be fresh wine, sweet wine, be the oil and wine that will be spared. There will still be plenty of time to praise the Lord.

Like you say, another scenario and time will tell.



Howdy Jay,

May this short word find you well & in peace, Also nice to hear from you that you are hungry for 'what's happening' (What's happening but the return of Christ Jesus- the only real game in town - despite how few appreciate it!)

Actually I do not write this lightly, for I know somewhat of what this involves and amazingly your main opposition to proclaiming his return (Realistically) will be Christianity per se! As amazing as this sounds at first, but soon you later will see 'av kovish' (Hebrew for- of course)- 'mere religion' is always against the purposes of God (Yahweh). Matter of fact the church in the 'latter days' is largely only a 'shell' of what it should be (See Rev. 2 & 3)

Nonetheless- the Father is stirring up His sons & daughters around the planet and 'some' are seeing & gettin more than most and like yourself trying to figure out what they can do. The heart is necessary and as you pray to get wisdom in this- it will come!

For myself I still have some contacts around the planet and 'the some' are looking (Remember only those ready and "looking" get into the marriage feast (All 'ten maidens' presumably were believers!)

By the way- in 70 AD the temple was completely destroyed (It was about 60 X 30 yds in dimension) Yet it stood upon a rebuilt Herodian 'temple mt.' which today is about 400 & 100 yds in dimension; and the West or Wailing Wall is only the SW corner of the temple mt. That's left- the temple is history utterly.

For myself these days several of us here in Connecticut are very interested in all that involves Israel- for around this revolves 'the rest' of the planet- Russia (Soon to be rearming BT), China (Don't be fooled about current 'news'- see Dan. 11:44 & Rev.9:16)

USA- (Suffice it for now- 'nada' happens in this world without the USA involved!) This may be a little easier for me to say for I've lived out of this culture for years)

Either way things are moving- yet I do know that simply knowing this is not enough, but one needs to do something about it. But I am learning too, first hand that God will yet use the weak and despised of this world to contradict the powerful- 'the goats' Ha, ha!

OK- if you'd like to compare notes get back to me when you have time- but time is running and many do not have 'time'.

Bless you through Yehoshua,

Bro. Al

Jay, I too believe we in Christ have to be of one mind. I very much appreciate your attitude to get at what the scriptures teach. I hope I don't come with denominational baggage. I am simply a christian and worship with others who are simply christians. We are all striving to completeness in Christ.

We should be able to understand the Bible, even Revelation, because in Ephesians 3, Paul says the Holy Spirit revealed the word it to the apostles who wrote it down so that we can read and understand. Therefore, we are able to understand what we need to know (with some study). End times, wow. I come in the middle of a deep discussion.

The Revelation received by John from Jesus Christ is a very unique book. John received a series of dreams and visions, which he describes in detail for his readers. All New Testament books are easier to understand if you are at least a little familiar with the Old Testament law and history. This is especially true of the book of Revelation. In 22 chapters, there are over 450 references or allusions to the Old Testament. Because John is describing visions he was given, the language John uses must be interpreted in a figurative way. How do you learn to interpret these symbols and figures? Become very familiar with the rest of the Bible before attempting to study Revelation. Today many modern preachers teach many things from Revelation which are not true. They try to apply its teachings and prophecies to their own modern generation without first asking themselves what it meant to the ones who first received it. Revelation was very relevant to the people who first read it. It applied directly to them in the first century. Any viewpoint that someone gives you on the book of Revelation, which does not take the historical setting in mind, is bound to be wrong.

The key verse to the book is Revelation 6:9-11. John saw a vision of believers who had already been killed because of their faith. They were seen asking God when he was going to carry out vengeance on their enemies. God answered that a few others would have to be killed then God would take out his wrath upon those who shed their blood. The rest of the visions in the book describe God's wrath against those enemies who shed the blood of his apostles, prophets, and other Christians. When you read the Old Testament and the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; ask yourself as you read: "Who was it that killed the apostles, the prophets and other believers in the Bible? When you find out who, then you will know the subject matter of the book of Revelation.

There is a contrast between the revelation to Daniel and the revelation to John which I wonder if your readers have noticed. Daniel was told in 12:4 to conceal the words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth and knowledge will increase. Then when Daniel asks how long that wil be "to the end of these wonders" he is told that it would be for "a time, times, and half a time, as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed. Then the scripture says in verse 9 that the words are concealed and sealed up until the end of time." So I understand that "the end of time" means the same thing as "when they finish shattering the power of the holy people." Who are the holy people of the Old Testament? Israel (the Jews). The power of the Jews as holy people ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 when no stone was left on top of another. But in a figurative way, the death of Christ on the cross was the end of the old covenant so that might be the end of time spoken of in Daniel. Whichever it might mean, the "end of time" referred not to the return of Christ, but the end of the age of Jewish significance as a religious power. When the temple was destroyed, the Jews lost all their genealogies which they took great pride in tracing, but Jesus said "Of these stones I can raise up children unto Abraham." Their pedigrees made no difference to Him if their hearts were not circumcised.

I do not understand how Revelation could be about things that would happen more than 2000 years out if John says they were near when 372 years was the "distant future" in Daniel's time. Here's what I mean:

Daniel 8:26 "The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given to you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future."

Daniel's vision was in 540 BC (time of Cyrus)
Fulfillment in 168 BC
Therefore distant future is 372 years

Revelation 22:10 "Then he told me, do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book because the time is near."

John's vision is last half of first century.
Fulfillment ? 2000 AD
Time is near? >2000 years?

In Daniel, the time for the shattering of the holy people was for "time, times and a half time" Dan 12:7. this statement stands for 3 1/2 years (1260 days / 360 days per Jewish year = 3 and a half years, the time the gentiles would tread on the holy city of Jerusalem)

Daniel's use of seventy sevens (Ch. 9) simply means a complete or whole time. See the use of the same terminology in Gen 4:24 and Matt. 18:22. Here are the periods covered:

  1. 7 weeks(sevens) -- Decree of Cyrus to rebuild Jerusalem to its completion
  2. 62 weeks(sevens) -- until the Messiah would be cut off
  3. entire period of seventy sevens (includes previous two) until the desolation (destruction of Jerusalem).

I may be in the dark, it wouldn't be the first time. I have to get to bed, its 1 am here. Thanks Jay.

Vicki Fedde


Hi Vicki,

Thanks for the update on the 70 weeks prophecy, I am glad that this does interest some of us, most people would probably not have studied it and it may not matter but as another had mentioned, these things are essential for us to study. For the benefit of those concerned, those 69 out of seventy weeks brought us to the crucifixion in that "it is finished." The last week of years, or seven years are to be unfolding soon in the tribulation period.

As far as the last days taking so long, I believe that this refers to the last days being the final stages of God's redemptive plan. In that is 2000 years long is unimportant in the total scheme of things, as we all know these are one thousand year periods of a day is as a thousand years. God is then doing just what He said He would and bringing us into that Sabbath Day right on time, the third day of Christ where we shall be raised also. I will have more to say about the circumcision of the heart.


Hello Jay

The Abomination of Desolation

"The people of God may not even know who he is until Jerusalem is taken over by him and the abomination of desolation takes place."

Even then they will not know, nor will many of us, because it's not seen with the eyes but with the spirit. Two buildings have been established by God through the life and death of Jesus Christ. One is the flesh, and the other is the spirit, and the flesh is just the consequences of the spiritual.

Jesus' life, and death are a two fold understanding to grace. His life is the faith we now seek, His death is the atonement to righteousness, giving the opposite of the offence, taking away the condemnation of the offence, by revealing Light in darkness, or, Life in death, or, flesh in spirit, allowing choice.

If we are to be dead to the flesh, then our body now is the temple, which God builds to inhabit.

Ephesians 2:20-22, 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 2:11-15, 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Wanting the liberty, hoping for the grace, breaks down the middle wall of partition between us, [removes our eyes from the lusts of the flesh, to the needs of the spirit,] having abolished in his flesh the enmity to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace. Jesus dying to reveal the spirit, because He rose again, to all them that hear of His love, and believe, will in it's consequences follow the Spirit, through the spirit, making a man of two, [spirit, & flesh,] no longer led by both, but by one, [spirit,] in the Spirit.

St. John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Having said that, here is a cross reference:
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Revelation 17: 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Though he is called he, so too is wisdom called she. Though he rises out of the pit, doesn't mean that he is ever seen, they behold the beast, [flesh,] then realize how much they have been led by the beast, then wonder, who can be saved, this beast being the flesh. I told you this before, you may have been very busy, but there is much, much, more and cannot be written out so easily, because as you see here now, you are looking to one place for information, while other things need to be understood, before this makes sense. God is great, all His truth cannot fit unless seen in the spirit, so as long as we keep seeking in the spirit, we will find the knowledge of God, [Proverbs 2:1-5,].

On Gog And Magog:

Revelation 21:1 tells us of the new heaven and the new earth, whereas this gog, and magog are back in Revelation 20:8-9, and a passing of all the dead, and hell ect... are judged and who is not found in the book of life are not saved, Revelation 20:12-15. The point is, it's not until all are judged that there is a new heaven and new earth, which is clearly after the 1000 yr reign.

Zechariah tells us why they will rise up against the city, because they have to give homage, and if they don't God will punish them, Zechariah 14:17-19. This would create trouble to the outer cities, [Revelation 22:15,] upon understanding they who are in the city, [Revelation 20:4-5,] that they outside would rise up against the city if they thought that the devil, with his deceiving, [Revelation 20:3,] could win them freedom.

God Bless!!!



Hi Jesuswon,

Putting a spiritual twist on all of this is very beneficial to understanding everything. At least we could say that we do not need to understand it all because it is seen with spiritual eyes. I agree. With that, we can however come to many conclusions as time goes on, after all, we are to understand these things more perfectly as time goes on. I can safely say that I am still confused but I know more now. If we can all do this, we do well.

Like you mentioned with Solomon, we must be all to busy and things have to be said over again. Well, that makes me tired as well as busy but we shall see what unfolds.


Dear Jay

We agree on many things, like the inaccurate calendar and spiritual restoration already begun.

However how do you reconcile the third temple which is made in heaven and does not descend until after the tribulation revelation 21 and Isaiah 65 "New Heaven and New Earth", with the Abomination that maketh desolate standing in the Holy Place?

In my view the abomination that maketh desolate is a spiritual being that deceives the whole world. This is the beast with seven heads and ten horns, which was and is not. The Holy place is Jerusalem and the church started by the disciples of Christ and later taken over by the roman authorities.

Just consider a few facts that many christians turn a blind eye to. Most of the World Leaders and Businessmen, outwardly worship Christ. But alarmingly most are apart of the cult of egypt known as The Freemasonary Rite. These represent the ten kings of the ten horns of each head of the beast, secretly they are corrupt and have a hidden agenda. The mark of the beast is the past word to trade in any business in the world today "no one may buy or sell except he has the mark of the beast". What is being touted as a free market economy is anything but free. It is a mafia like industry carved up and controlled by the Freemasons.

These are the very builders who rejected the rock(Jesus Christ). Before leaving Jesus told us many of you shall not see death until my return. This can only be explained by the reincarnation of the men of that day. These were the sandhedrin who Christ said block up the doorway to the kingdom of heaven and do not go in themselves.

But as you rightly said they are worried about gog and magog even as Daniel 11 said the news out of the North and East (Russia, Babylon/Persia and China) shall trouble him. Which nation has been systematically pursuing Russia, Iran, Irag and China? Daniel 11 is been fulfilled before our very eyes.

In any invent the biggest clue is given to us by Jesus in Mathew "when the fig tree sprouts forth its leaves you know the summer is near". The fig tree is Israel and the end of summer is the harvest. The leaves sprang forth in 1948 and 1967 when Israel regained control of its Lands. So we know the time is now close all we can do is prepare.

Just want to draw a few facts to your attention. The USA is nation that was founded by the Freemasons. George Washington and many other were all apart of this cult. Just look at the american dollar bill and see the eye of RA in the Pyramid. Go to washington an see the egyptian oblisck of RA. A famous mason named comete de saint Germain as wrote about how to reincarnate in the book the most holy trinosophie and has been seen in different ages.


The vatican in rome has a courtyard surrounded by greek and pagan gods in a circle with (you guessed it) an egyptian oblisck of RA in the centre. This is the same as the Babylon tradition of worshipping the zodiac. What communion has Christ with gods and egyptian rites. If egypt was such a lovely place, why would Moses and the Israelites flee from it.

The jewish equivalent is the tradition called the Kabbalah. The kabbalah it self is not to blame, for it is the receiving of the HOLY GHOST. However since the death of Solomon it has been corrupted with the worshipping of demons and necromancy. What many ignor is that Solomon like St. Peter was given the keys of Heaven and Earth. That is the binding of demons and spirits of the air and earth elements. They who practice these rites without the special privileges given to Solomon and St Peter corrupt themselves.

My point is this, the state of the world today has been brought about by these spiritual practices that have been practiced by church and state. These practices are in my view worshipping the beast. They have blinded the eyes of the many, however the wise are not deceived.

Just some thing for you to think about? The 666 of revelation may be explained by gematria/numerology of greek and hebrew. In hebrew it is samech-tau-vAv-resh, 60+400+6+200=666, pronounced SOTAR. There is an old gnostic magic square that goes like this.


This tradition is still practiced today under the name of psychic mysticism. Why then has the USA gone psychic mad over the past 15 years. Hollywood stars cashing in on the act as well?

Just a few things to think about.
Carl Daley.

Dear List,

(The words that are in italics are what Jay wrote the other day regarding the Abomination of Desolation)

The Abomination of Desolation

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place. Then let him which be in Judea flee into the mountains:

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." Daniel 9:27

The middle of the one week. Could Daniel be implying seven days, seven years, seven thousand years, or ? I am going on an interpretation of seven years. In the middle of the seventh year - so after three and one-half years the sacrifice and the oblation will be ceased. We have been discussing the fact that the temple is a spiritual habitation - our bodies are the living stones that create this temple. So if this is the truth then what is Daniel talking about regarding the sacrifice? When I think of sacrifice in the New Testament I think of Hebrews 10 - Christ's sacrifice once for all. So if we take this understanding that Jesus is the sacrifice and that His sacrifice will be done away with - then from this point on the name of Jesus will be substituted with a false representative of God - the anti-christ. Could this be what is being described in Rev. 13:11-12 (12) "…and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." The counterfeit christ - "he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon" Rev. 11, is now standing in the holy place, in the position and authority of Jesus, demanding that he is to be worshiped.

I think Rev.13 ties directly into the Matthew and Daniel scriptures because we are back into the seven-week scenario. In Daniel the beast represents countries so it is probably safe to say that this beast also represents countries. I have played around with the idea that the head that is wounded to death and was healed could be Israel. It is the only country that I know of that died, stopped existing as a country, and then was brought back from death, brought back into existence. But it would seem odd that God would include Israel as part of the beast. There is another possibility the beast could represent an authority figure over each country, in that case it could be a person who had power at one time politically, died in the sense that they lost political power. Then was brought back from death, by being repositioned back into power over an influential country. Or perhaps both political power and country are one and the same? So it is still a possibility that the wounded beast could be Israel because that would be a perfect position for the anti-christ to set himself up in a pivotal position regarding scripture. "Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains" Matthew 24:16. I see know no reason why Jesus would say this if there wasn't some importance being placed upon Judea. And if we know this then the anti-christ knows this as well.

The Anti-christ will be a political leader but only a religious one in that he is riding upon Babylon. He will cause the image of the beast to be worshipped and represents a worldly religion of the flesh, so he will have the favor of the religious community that have taken the spiritual mark upon them of idolatrous and political worship. The spiritual sacrifices that he makes are fleshly, not spiritual.

What Jay says in the prior paragraph only makes me think that I am still on the correct path. He is a political leader who has the favor of the religious community but has no faith in God. He may use the Bible as reference to the fact that certain portions of Israel belong to the Jewish nation, but He doesn't acknowledge the truth of God being the inspiration and author of this book (blasphemy). It is just a historical book as far as this person would have us believe. Babylon - the worldly religion of the flesh, anything not born of spirit is flesh. So the implications are far ranging - I know I keep stressing that the anti-christ will be positioned in Israel because I think the Jews still play an important part in fulfilling the scriptures. We may not look to them for an actual temple but I think we should still pay attention to what is happening politically. Who is coming into power, who is behind this person, and what changes are being made that leads the community into a false sense of peace when there really is no peace.

Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. Math. 13:35-37



The Last Rebellion : Revelation 20:7-10.

Basking in the light of Christ, and selected writings of Govett, Criswell, Mounce, Aune, Ladd, and Walvoord.

The previous destruction of the hostile nations in Rev. 19:11-21 has apparently been forgotten. In Ezekiel 38-39, it is not explicitly Satan who deceives Gog ; rather the conflict is an evil scheme that God claims originated with Gog himself [Ezek. 38:10].

On being relieved from his confinement, Satan loses no time in resuming his activities and plunges into his campaign to deceive the nations of the earth. These who are tempted are the descendants of the tribulation saints who survive the tribulation and enter the millennium in their natural bodies. The children of those entering the millennium far outnumber the parents, and undoubtedly the earth is teaming with inhabitants at the conclusion of the thousand-year reign of Christ. Outwardly they have been required to conform to the rule of the king, and make a profession of obedience to Christ. In many cases, however, this was mere outward conformity without inward reality, and in their inexperience of real temptation they ar easy victims of Satans wiles.

Men speculate upon the reasons why Satan is loosed. Practically all of them say this : Satan is loosed in order that those who grow up under the Millennium, under the perfect and righteous reign of Christ, may have the chance to choose between good and evil, between God and Satan. They have never been tempted. They have never been tried. At the close of the thousand years Satan is going to be loosed and everyone who has grown up in the Millennium is going to have an opportunity to choose between righteousness and unrighteousness, like everyone else who has ever been born into this world and who has had the same choice. Satan is to be loosed to try them and to tempt them. Whether that is true or not, the thesis is plausible. Wherever man is placed, in the Millennium or out of it, before it or after it, in the Garden of Eden or today, whether he is young or old, wherever man is, he is a sinner. Satan deceives him and his story is one of utter depravity. Satan is always Satan. Though he is bound in prison for a thousand years, yet still he is as vile and as subtle, as merciless and as ruthless, as diabolical and as evil as he was in the beginning. He has not changed. And mankind has not changed. Here after the Millennium, after the thousand years, Satan goes out and he finds the hearts of men by the uncounted millions open to his deception. Their number is as the sand of the sea.

We gather from this set of passages some hints as to the state of the Church on earth during the millennial period. There is no reason to doubt that the millennium, owing to the effective restraint put upon evil through the Word of truth and the power of God, will be a period of very great blessedness. Satan is the active agent in so much evil, and when he is bound a large portion of evil will cease to exist, and a far more rapid diffusion of good will be the blessed result. It is equally clear that the millennium will not be a period of unmixed good, nor will it be a time of ultimate blessing because sin is still a problem.

Compared with things as they are now, the earth will be at rest ; but it will not be heaven. Evil will be subdued, but it will not be extinct. [Isa. 65:20]. The possibility of an outbreak will exist still, and judgement will be swift. There will also be death in the world. The deathless state enters not in till the new heavens and the new earth appear, and Paradise is regained. Not till then will there be 'no more curse.

The Church will still have to be prepared for war. Obviously, if the state of things on earthquaking the millennium were one of universal righteousness, there would be no nations to be deceived. Still less can we suppose that, after the resurrection from the dead, the glorified saints are to go about, sword in hand, to the holy war.

What should we gather from Scripture concerning the onset of ill after the millennium?

It was necessary. There is a little word in the third verse of this chapter of which we are too apt to lose sight. It is the word 'must'. 'After that, he must be loosed a little season.' Must! Why? We are not told. The millennium and the subsequent rebellion of men will prove that men cannot blame their sinfulness on their environment or unfortunate circumstances ; in the final judgment, the decrees of God will be shown to be just and righteous. This loosening will be a fierce onset. It will be after the old kind, by 'deception' [v. 8]. What will be the special form of deceit he will use we are not told, and conjecture is useless. It will be a restricted struggle. Satan will be bound by time even when loosed as to space. Not even at the worst of times is the world given over to the devil. It will be for a little season. Not only restricted, but within very narrow limits. The conflict may be sharp, but it will be short. The struggle will be even serviceable to the Church ; for not only will it reveal more and more the majesty of God in defending His own cause, but it will end in the hurling of Satan to a lower depth than before, he will be cast into the lake of fire, where the beast and false prophet are dwelling forever. This struggle will be the last. If the reader has followed the plan of the book, he will have noticed how one after another the foes of God and man are destroyed.

Thus ends the last rebellion ever seen upon this planet,---the last sin, and the last deaths, that ever occur in this dwelling-place of man.

In Christ, Timothy.


My understanding of this, may be lame, but Christ will reign on earth 1000 years after the 2nd glorious appearing at the end of the tribulation and satan will be bound for that 1000 years and he will have one more chance to make his case and this will be armageddon. Then the judgment will come. During the 1000 years there will be great peace because satan will be bound and unable to turn against each other and our Lord and he will rule the nations with a rod of iron....maybe I am wrong on armageddon if so tell me what it is in your interpretation...thanks Audette


Hi Audette,

Not lame at all, basically this is a mixture of the a-millennial and pre-millennial position, I have never heard it before but in my own confusion, anything makes as much sense as my own position. In an a-millennial interpretation, we are already in the millennium except it has been for 2 thousand years instead of one and there is no explanation for the difference. They believe that satan is bound now and Jesus is reigning in our hearts. That does reconcile the notion of Gog and Magog coming soon as Armegeddon but it makes it no clearer to me on any other point. Your view makes it no clearer either but it is as good as any.

I am still working on it.



The Leadership of the Child

[Isa. 11:6]---'The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid : and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together ; and a little child shall lead them.'

Isaiah is drawing a picture of redeemed nature. Under the rule of the promised Prince of David's line, ' the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together, and '---as a charming finishing touch to the idyllic scene---' a little child shall lead them.' There is no reason to think that when Isaiah talks of bears and lions and reptiles, he means fierce and cruel and cunning men. When he talks of the beasts he means the beasts. The passage is a parallel to St. Paul's vision of a ransomed nature, in the eighth chapter of Romans. And Isaiah does not wish to exterminate the wild animals, but to tame them. This is more remarkable because, in countries where wild beasts abound, they are looked upon not as "big game," but as dangerous enemies. After all, man is largely to blame for the wildness of the beasts.

Our ancestors sinned in ignorance ; they were taught that the world, with all it contains, was made for man, and that the lower orders of creation have no claims whatsoever upon us. But we have no longer the excuse of saying that we do not know ; we do know that organic life on this planet is all woven together, and that if we are children of our Heavenly Father, it must be true, as Christ told us, that no sparrow falls to the ground without His care. The new knowledge has revolutionized our ideas of our relations to the other living creatures who share the world with us, and it is our duty to consider seriously what this knowledge should mean for us in matters of conduct.

But let us turn to the verses which come just before the vision of redeemed nature. What s Isaiah say first about the branch that shall grow out of the roots of Jesse? 'The spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.' This splendid enumeration of the intellectual gifts of the Messiah---His profound wisdom, penetrating insight, swift and unerring judgment---leads on at once to the idyllic picture which we have mentioned---the wild animals tamed and gentle, an led by a child. It is a very noble an a very striking contrast. The ideal Ruler of David's line, on whom the Spirit of the Lord shall pour all His choicest intellectual gifts, shall found a kingdom of universal peace, gentleness, and confiding innocence.

To me was shown no higher stature than childhood. Not, of course, that we should remain children in understanding ; not that, when we have become men, we should refuse to put away childish things ; but that there should remain much of the child-character in us to the end. Christianity was founded by a young man ; it is a religion for the young, and for those who remain young in heart, though their hair is grey. Are not faith and hope and love, the three Christian virtues, essentially the temper of the child---the boy and girl? And are they not precisely the qualities which the cynical man of the world prides himself on having outgrown?

There is something very charming and inspiring in the faith, hope and charity which have survived prolonged contact with the world, and experience of its ways. The religion of the devout recluse is good, but the religion of the good man of the world is better. We are made to make a difference in the world.

The hope of the world is in the childlike. It was one of Christ's most daring and beautiful statements that the citizen of His Kingdom must have the heart of a little child. With advancing years he must indeed put away childish things, but for all that, he must retain his childlikeness. He need not be learned, great, or gifted, though God be thanked if these privileges be his, but we must be childlike. Our Lord stood firm upon this as the prime condition of discipleship.

In Christ, Timothy.



After my last posting God kept impressing upon my heart Rev. 20:5, "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." The rest of the dead. This word interested me. Dead as opposed to alive. We are alive with God when we receive the Holy Spirit. "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption (natural bodies); it is raised in incorruption (spiritual bodies):" 1 Cor. 15:42. All of 1 Cor. 15:42 - 58 teaches us the truth that once we have received the Holy Spirit - we are alive in Christ. The Spirit within us shall not pass away but enter into a new relationship with God. But the flesh - that which was sown in corruption - it shall pass away. 1 Cor. 15:55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory?" We are alive in Christ and will not taste of death spiritually. We will not die - so we are not among the dead when we have received the Holy Spirit.

In Rev. 20:5 God says the rest of the dead - those not raised in "incorruption" - they shall not live again until the 1,000 years. At first I thought a thousand years without receiving the Holy Spirit - frightening. And perhaps it will be frightening? But I am reminded that the Old Testament people lived their entire lives without (except for a few exceptions) the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Also, we don't read of Satan being the main problem in their lives. We read of Satan coming before God - but we are not told that he is the major force behind the sin in people's lives in the Old Testament. The followers of God were to offer up sacrifices for their sins. Their physical - fleshly sins. So this could be the same situation that occurs during the 1,000 year inhabitation of the earth. So perhaps God is leading us back into an Old Testament relationship during this 1,000 year habitation upon the earth?

It is also interesting that God mentions Israel as the physical dwelling place where He will breath out fire and devour this remnant. Rev. 20:9. Yet in Rev. 20:8 God says the four corners of the earth - so this sounds like He is implying that all the inhabitants of the earth - all those contained within the four corners - north, south, east, west, are to be deceived by Satan and judged accordingly. But right after God says the four corners, in the same sentence, He mentions Gog and Magog. Gog and Magog were enemies of Israel. They sought to destroy and control all contained within the four corners of this nation. It could be He will gather all those in rebellion and who are to be destroyed to this nation. But I wonder why He focuses on Israel in Rev. 20:8 and 9 as the last physical - earthly habitation for all humans to be judged?

1 Cor. 15:57 "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."



Hi Arlette,

The four corners mean from the very extremities of the earth. Try thinking of the nation of Israel in prophecy as also fulfilling the will of God concerning the Christian church. Even though the word Israel may describe the nation of Israel, Judah describes her even more because most of the nation of Israel is Jewish, most of the other tribes of Israel have been dispersed among the Gentiles and part of the "ten lost tribes of Israel." We must accept this as historical and biblical mandates to understand Israel's role in the fulfillment of prophecy.


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The Lord has given us the grace to reconcile the children to their Fathers

As One Body

  • We prepare for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb
  • Harvest the Fruit of the Latter Rain
  • Follow Him as the Army of the Lord into His Glory

Help To Prepare A Holy Bride!

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