From Teaching to Evangelism
This forum that we have put together has done much in the area of
teaching. The responses this time concerning teachers especially point
to what we are doing here. I am called to teach, at least that is what
you think. Well Praise the Lord, I have asked Him to do that for me. Why
not praise Him? But how about all of you? I praise you as well.
This list is growing every day, over 300 now. Not a mega list by any
means but not too shabby for a discussion list that has only been around
this year. Most on the list never respond but many of you do. The ones
that do not are perfectly content with soaking in what is going on. The
list grows and not that many ask to be taken off. Why? We are all
getting fed. There is some good teaching going on here. I do not have
any delusions that everyone is reading all of the posts and taking
everything in but people e-mail me all the time and tell me that they
are being blessed by my site. Much of the credit now goes to you all. I
did not want to be the only voice and God is allowing others to help
with the teaching. This is the putting our heads together that I had
wanted to be able to come to agreement. This may not mean as much to you
as it does to me but there are so many that are getting this great stuff
off of my site now that I can really see what is going on. Now that
everything is being archived and the search engines spider my site (I am
very effective at promotion), this list is starting to get some real
good exposure. And it is all a matter of permanent record now. There
will be many more that will see what is going on here and coming by
again and again and taking a look. And getting blessed. You are giving
them some real good teaching.
Look at all of the wonderful teaching that we had in the Babylon
discussions and the rapture question. Ginny with all her wonderful
remarks and Gary Patterson with apostles and Dean Furlong and Karen with
all their wonderful comments and Bordtodis with so much of his wisdom.
And look at the five-fold discussion and what Stephen Hanson brought
forth concerning prophecy and Gary with apostles, Brother Alan with the
laying on of hands, Angela alerting us to the truth about the WTO, Gil
and a couple of Jims and a couple of Brians, Don, James, Kathleen and
Cathy, Paul and Larry, Leander, Ivan and the Silver Paladin, better stop
now, I could go on and on, I will not list all of you, there were many
many more and you are all there for the whole world to see. Each
bringing forth their special area of gifted teaching. The point I am
making is that this has really been great teaching. The Lord is indeed
speaking through this group and my wildest aspirations for the success
of this forum has been realized. Again, praise the Lord.
For those of you that have been around these discussions for a while,
you know that you have changed my mind on several points that I had been
assertive about before and had to turn around my way of thinking. With a
site as big as mine is, when I change my mind on something, it affects
all kind of areas. I quickly must go around and update those things that
had not been as perfect as before. You have had a profound affect on
this ministry and me. This is from putting our heads together in the
spirit. There is still much work to do but there is spiritual power in
coming together in the love and humility that this group has brought
forth and this is bigger than just my site. It is the image of what God
is doing around the world in bringing like-minded people in the spirit
together. Realize also that this teaching is having an impact, people
have told me that. We have not all agreed upon everything except that we
should love each other. That is what will bring forth the manifest sons,
this is what this discussion is about. We have had our teachers and
pastors and the rest all along, but the man-child has been birthed and
this is a new thing. Make no mistake about it, it is happening all over
the world. There may be groups and individuals that think that they are
fulfilling these things by themselves and want to take the credit alone,
but if it is not according to the love and humility and desire to come
together and putting aside the divisions of the past, then it is just
more pride talking, not the spirit of Jesus. They appeal to the flesh to
draw others to themselves.
Evangelism is next. I am criticized all too often of not being
evangelistic enough on my site. It has never been my intention to make
new Christians but rather to make Christians better. If we do what we
can to make those in the church more mature, more committed to walking
in the spirit and more in one accord, then evangelism will follow. Those
that are brought to the Lord will be better and not be making the same
mistakes that have plagued the church in the past. Evangelism is our
first concern in the world and that is to bring the gospel of Jesus
Christ to the lost. We are to prepare ourselves to be worthy to meet
Jesus when He comes for His Bride, then we will be able to lift Him up
and draw all men unto Him. We preach Christ and Him crucified but He
preached that we should crucify ourselves and take up His cross. We have
not the right to bring anyone to Jesus if we are not willing to come to
Him ourselves completely, as the holy and sanctified vessels that He
wants us to be.
Now, the final topic in our discussion on the five-fold - the
evangelists. For myself, I do not think that I have the gift. I mean, I
can share the Lord with others and I have brought others to a saving
knowledge of Christ but as far as the gift, like the gift of prophecy or
apostleship, I do not have the gift of evangelism. Maybe I do and don't
know it. I do know that there will be a time in the future where I will
not just be writing but be speaking to groups and laying hands on them
and doing healing and all that. Up to now, it has mainly been a ministry
to believers, the gift of evangelism is to non-believers and getting
them saved.
Anyway what are some of your ideas and thoughts on the subject? I was
confirmed with the gift of prophecy when I was witnessing to a brother.
I suppose that is evangelizing, it should be in the spirit, but a
gifting? What do you think?
Pray for this man below that may be executed tomorrow for being a
Christian. There is a field for evangelism, the Muslims, if we can ever
come to the point of loving them. The responses here start with a life
and death prayer request and ends down below with the fact of thousands
being killed in this way in Muslim countries. A Holy war against God's
people? Delusion for sure.
Jay
Life and Death Prayer Request
Original Message
Steve Maguire of the Bradford-upon-Avon Christian Fellowship has asked
me to pass on this urgent request to as many people as possible :
His church has been made aware that there is an urgent prayer need.
George Haji, who is based in Aden, in the Yemen has been sentenced to
death and is due to be executed next Wednesday for being a Christian. No
crime is involved. It is not possible to give any more details on
grounds of confidentiality. Can we take hold of this please and pray?
Could you e-mail people on your address books in order to make the need
to overturn this dreadful threatened action as high profile as
possible? I understand that Baroness Chalker has been made aware of the
need within the last two hours.
Every blessing
Jay, Thanks for this, it seems you definitely have a gift of teaching,
otherwise you wouldn't have the website you do! St. Francis said "Preach
the gospel at all times, and when necessary use words." Of course,
words
are the cups that carry the water of life, but I can definitely
understand
why he said that. Or, to use the symphony illustration, the individual
instruments making up the whole sound. Words without love are like
sounding
brass, tinkling cymbals, just a whole lot of noise without
"melody"....which is to sum up your last writing in a little "picture"
for
those who are more visual learners. Words without meaning don't make any
sense at all to those who hear them, any more than most Americans
understand Greek. Teaching is a wonderful gift, such a precious privilege for both
those
who are learning and those who are teaching, because it is how we "grow"
and how we bear "fruit"....seed bearing fruit bearing seed ..... and
only
those who "know" can teach those who "don't". I believe the word
ignorance
is rooted in the verb "to ignore" and not a case of the "lack of
knowledge"...there are those who "don't know" because nobody has ever
taught them. There are "fools" who say in their heart "there is no God"
because they choose to ignore the truth. So, in essence, we are all
teachers to an extent if we know the truth of God and we KNOW GOD, we
are
in the earth to teach others that truth, to MAKE HIM KNOWN in all the
earth. In simple ways we often teach more than those who possess great
and
lofty "gifts", I guess it all comes down to faith in the end and what we
truly believe. If we do believe what we profess, then we will live it
out
every day and the world around us will "see" God by watching us. Just
like
we "see" God by watching Jesus, because that's what it means to "teach"
others. The Holy Spirit that dwells in us is the SAME HOLY SPIRIT that
raised Jesus from the dead. He gives us the power not only to "tell"
them,
but also demonstrate to them, SHOW them, what is known to us, which is
the
LORD HIMSELF. There is a big, big difference between knowing about
somebody and knowing that person, especially knowing them intimately.
If
you belong to Jesus, you can't be deceived, it isn't possible, read His
own
words. "If it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived" but
the GOOD NEWS is IT ISN'T POSSIBLE to deceive anyone who KNOWS THE LORD
IN
TRUTH. If you know what is real, then it is obvious what isn't. That's
why
He calls His people sheep instead of goats. Goats will go their own way,
sheep are helplessly dependent on their shepherd to lead them. We WON'T
follow another VOICE because we KNOW our Shepherd's VOICE. I think we
can
trust Him with all of our hearts, we can believe Him and know He will
keep
HIS promises to us. Years ago, the nearly ninety year old missionary
who
SHOWED me JESUS when I was still wandering around in the darkness of my
own
mind and ways, the one who led me back all the way to HIM, and loved me
into the Kingdom of God, told me I could rest assured that HE IS ABLE to
KEEP ME. As he said, He purchased me with His own blood, and that was
not
a cheap price to pay for my soul. I am precious to HIM, HIS OWN, and HE
is
keeping my soul, protecting me from enemies and feeding me, leading me,
making me lie down in green pastures, leading me beside still waters.
THE
LORD IS MY SHEPHERD....if we KNOW HIS VOICE, we will follow HIM closely
and
we will be safe. He will keep us from falling, He will lead us safely
ALL
THE WAY HOME, through the fire, through the storms, we need only to STAY
CLOSE TO HIM and to listen always for HIS VOICE. Jesus will never leave
us
of forsake us, not those who belong to HIM, that is HIS PROMISE....and,
this I have learned. HE IS THE PROMISE KEEPER!!!! My God don't tell no
LIES!!!! Hold on brothers and sisters, there are watchmen shouting! The
ship has come finally into sight and we only need to be here watching
and
waiting when it arrives to take us into GLORY LAND....if you are
praying,
you will KNOW when the CAPTAIN calls, if you are gambling and playing,
well, you most likely will miss the boat. I think it's YOUR call, and
if
you love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, LOVE
YOUR
NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF (which is the only evidence that you love the LORD
at
all, YOU WILL KNOW AND YOU WILL HEAR AND SEE THE LORD, IN ALL HIS GLORY,
AND DWELL WITH HIM FOREVER. HIS PROMISE. YOU CAN BELIEVE IT. YOU CAN
TRUST IN THAT WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND KNOW, WITHOUT A DOUBT!!! karen
Jay,
Just a few short words.It is very evident
that the Lord is speaking through his
people here.We are all being taught what
he would have us to know.I get a charge
hearing from you and others on this site.
It is an absolute great teaching tool.
Jim
Jay, this first paragraph that you wrote is simply lovely. God bless
you,
man. I have no comments to add. I quite enjoyed the read.
bill.caraway
Jay, It looks as though it may be time to talk about teachers. When I visited Indonesia in 1963, some of the church leaders there
told
me that they often had young people who got on fire for the Lord. But
then
they got sent to seminary or Bible school where they got their heads
filled
with knowledge, but their zeal cooled off. How could we start a training
program that would keep them fired up?
I checked out a large number of programs in this country and discovered
that
the ones that were keeping people on fire, started, not with buildings,
faculty, and curriculum, but with a vision from the Lord, followed by a
lot
of frustrating experiences and finally a powerful move of the Lord.
In 1965, my family and I moved to Indonesia, started learning the
language, avoided getting killed by the communists, and prayed a lot.
After a
few months, the Lord gathered a small group of young nationals that
wanted to
join us for prayer. We met each evening for prayer and worship. Soon we
began
to get called to houses where someone was sick or demon possessed or in
other
kinds of need. The Lord started doing miracles. After a while, we began
to
get invitations to churches around Java and sometimes on other islands.
We
were in our training program. For several years, we were just a little
group
who traveled around and saw what the Lord was doing. He was teaching us
His
ways of doing evangelism and ministry. He worked out of us all of the
usual
concepts of training and imposed His methods on us. Most of this time,
we
lived in a little village high in the mountains of East Java. in 1970,
we
moved down the mountain to a small city, and acquired a large house in
which
to start a somewhat larger training program. In town, there were 14
churches,
but out of town a couple of kilometers was a whole mountain area with
thousands of people who had never heard the name of Jesus.
Shortly after we moved there, some of the young disciples saw the
field
in front of our house filled with people and some of their buddies
standing
on a platform preaching. They saw great numbers of people being healed.
They
fasted a prayed for over a month. The campaign took place as seen in the
vision. The young people, many of whom were new converts and untrained
did
the preaching and ministry under powerful anointing of the Holy Spirit.
Over
900 people were healed of blindness, deafness, paralysis, demon
possession,
and many other diseases. The villages round about knew the name of Jesus
and
they knew His power. Our young disciples started spending much of their
time
in the villages teaching the new converts to pray, read their Bibles,
face
persecution, and reach out to their neighbors with the Gospel. They
returned
to our house for sharing of experiences, confirmation of the lessons the
Lord
was teaching them, and mutual encouragement. We were learning that the
Lord
tends to do things first and then talk about them. We were learning the
Lord's method of training disciples.
Jesus' method of teaching
Jesus never built a building or held a class. He did on-the-job
training.
He gathered a little group of young men and a few women around Him and
started to walk. They saw the miracles He did, the people getting
healed, the
demon possessed delivered, the dead raised, the Pharisees confronted,
the
Gospel proclaimed in very strange ways. When there was time, they sat
down
someplace and discussed what they had seen. After a few weeks, Jesus
sent
them out on their own to put into practice what they had learned from
watching Him. He gave them a few brief instructions--heal the sick, cast
out
demons, raise the dead, preach the Kingdom, don't take along any
provisions,
etc. They came back after a short period of time with amazing stories.
"Wow,
it works! Even the demons obey us in Your Name!"
The disciples did not take notes on the definition of love. They
learned
love from their daily association with Jesus. They learned holiness from
observing Jesus' lifestyle, and through His gentle and frequent
reminders. They learned how to do all kinds of ministry by observing
Jesus'
methods and by practicing it themselves.
He also taught them faith through things they had to face. They got
their
first real clue as to Who Jesus is at the marriage in Cana. When they
saw the
water turned into wine, they "believed in Him." A bit later, they got a
more
profound lesson in faith when Jesus got them out on the lake and went to
sleep in the back of the boat as a storm was coming up. He showed them
how to
deal with that kind of situation and He chided them a bit about their
lack of
faith. A bit later, He stepped up this teaching one degree, by not even
being
in the boat when the storm came. He then came to rescue them walking on
the
water. Other lessons in faith occurred when they were asked to feed
great
multitudes on the mountain sides.
The disciples eventually had too learn horrendous lessons about
persecution, suffering, and death as they followed Him through the
process
leading up to His crucifixion.
Their training was always non-formal and practical. It was
on-the-job
training or by discussion, and in fellowship. The training and the
personal
contact with Jesus were all part of the same thing.
Ordinary teachers show up to give lectures and to give assignments
or
test. Then, they go home. The students do not necessarily know about
their
lifestyle. Jesus humbled Himself to eat and sleep and walk the dusty
roads
with them, day in and day out.
Jesus basically taught us by the same method. We went where He led
us,
observed His miracles, experienced His love and His correction. We let
Him
speak through all the gifts of the Spirit. We faced adequate danger and
persecution. I sort of graduated along with the first wave of students
and
spent the rest of my time smiling pleasantly and being available as
needed.
We indigenized the work in 1977 and it has spread all over the country.
Now
almost all of our graduates have similar training programs all over the
country. The churches that opposed us when we started have begun to
follow
many of our principals and the whole spiritual climate has been changed.
Now,
as you probably know, persecution is coming from the radical Moslem
element
who are killing off Christians by the thousands and burning churches by
the
hundreds. The Christians are standing firm, learning how best to face
persecution. They continue to grow in numbers as well as in spiritual
depth.
I am travelling in Montana at this time, visiting descendents. I
will
have more to say about teachers when I get home.
In my opinion, at this point and time we live in, we need far more
teaching
in the church and allowing people to ask questions right then and there
as to
what the pastor is saying if we have questions or comments. So many of
us
feel muzzled in church and walk out each Sunday with questions they
might get
an answer to on bible study night or the question goes unanswered and we
stay
in the same mind set until we get upset and forget it and turn to the
world
for answers. If pastors would stop trying to on God's people and tell
them
when he feels they should do this or that and recognize that the harvest
is
now, and he who is wise, wins souls instead of only people with titles
in
the church, (with pastors permission) then maybe souls can be encouraged
and
more souls saved. Churches today are too worried about the building
fund,
getting new robes, and draining your pockets of money that they have
lost
focus.
LLe9925577
July 11, 2000
Christian Persecution in Yemen
From: Julian Marsh
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2000
Subject: Urgent Request for prayer
Julian Marsh
In Him, Edwin StubeLatter Rain Discussion Archives
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