The New Melody of Love
What is that new song anyway? God is love. What He has done for others,
He can do for you. If you truly share in that divine nature, it is in
love - period. Is this the new song that we should be singing? What else
is there but love for the brethren, it that not what we will be known
by. Of course. We can leave those that elevate their own particular
gifting or ministry office or denomination or special doctrines and
requirements for salvation behind us. As long as we know that we know
God and His love for us and we share that love with those around us,
what more is there. If that is truly the case, then we can speak the
same thing. If we have that testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of
prophecy, then God is speaking in us, to us and through us to others and
if that is true, then we can only be saying the same thing. We are One
in the Spirit, One in the Lord and One in the faith. There can be no
division in that.
Love itself is not a new thing, John says that we have had it from the
beginning. What is new is that we can sing it together without all the
conflict and all the division that has identified us in the past.
Nothing new except the realization that we have the power to sing it
unto heaven with high praise. We are not just to sing the song, we are
to pray it and lift up our voices together. The intercession of His
saints is the power to release the captives and open up blind eyes and
deaf ears. Now that we know that love is the melody of the new song, we
are to praise the Lord and sing it to Him. Rise up our hearts in
adoration to the One that has given us this song. Hallelujah, the Lord
inhabits the praises of His people. Give Him the glory.
Check out these responses. It is in prayer and praise and love and
saying the same thing. Pastors are to be loved and we must pray for
them, the same with all of us. Our discussion is on the five-fold
ministry. I don't know if I have mentioned it before but we should all
be part of the five-fold as ministers. Not just under a minister in the
five-fold but every Christian on this planet should be a minister. What
is a minister but someone that loves those around them enough to give
them a testimony of what Jesus has done for them. If Jesus has saved you
and brought you out of darkness into eternal light, then you have a
testimony of Jesus that should be shared. That is ministration. The
five-fold is not something that should be taken for granted or thought
of as above our own relationship with Christ but of our very being. This
is the unity and love that we must have for us to be part of the body of
Christ, fitly joined together.
We have had really good discussions on pastors, apostles and prophets.
Time to discuss teachers, and then evangelists. I wonder how many
teachers there are in this group? Many have already admitted to having a
teaching gift already. I do not know if I am especially gifted in this
area but I pray that I am. Most of what is on my site, I consider
teaching. I pray that it is of the Lord and there may be no falseness to
it. I know there is or I would not be correcting myself as much as I do
and I would not be subjecting myself to others in order to refine my
teaching. That is progress. A false teacher would be teaching without
the power of the Holy Spirit in their life. There are just too many
teachers teaching in the flesh with the pretense of teaching religious
truth. Too bad, but just as others in the ministry, we must yet give
them space for the Lord to bring them up to where He wants them. Are
there any of us that can say that we have truly arrived? I don't think
so.
Anyway, let's hear what it is to be a teacher these days. What are your
ideas on the gift? I have not seen as much material on the gift as these
others we have discussed but we have to realize that it is of vast
importance to receive good teaching and bring up good teachers. This is
the one part of the five-fold that that we are all commanded by Jesus to
do with His Great Commission - teach and baptize, "teaching them to
observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..." Maybe we should
all be teachers. What do you think?
Jay.
Hallelujah! The saints must always be in prayer for their Pastor. By
saints,
I mean ALL saved, sanctified, believers. Whether in ministry or not,
prayer
for those who have the rule over us is as essential as breathing. I
cannot
believe how many saints I talk with who say they pray for everything
else,
but the Pastor!! Certainly there is a great need in the Body for
teaching on
prayer. Prayer lifts the Pastor. It gives him strength. It moves God on
his
behalf. Not every Pastor is a perfect Pastor. From time to time, I get
to
help new/young pastors to get in order as the Holy Ghost leads. Some
"called"
to be a Pastor are better off evangelizing, or teaching. Pastorship is
not a
business. It is nothing like running a structured corporation in the
secular.
A Pastor is not "Lord" over the congregation. I've seen some who are
never
seen, but once a week to "give" orders and expect the "corporate" body
to
respond. These don't last long. Pretty soon, the saints catch on.
Pastoring
is an anointing, part of the ascension gifts of Christ. Many, and I do
mean
many, see it as a business deal, and bring in their "anointed" friends
to
take over a Church because they agree with them (and they want to keep
it in
the family). Curse it Lord.
Pastoring is a great responsibility. The Pastor is the God-appointed
shepherd
of that congregation and he is the "mum and dad" of the Church, full of
love,
care and compassion for the saints. He is the caretaker of God's Word
and he
has the authority to rebuke and chasten to keep order in the House.
However,
he cannot do it all alone, hence the other four gifts.
Thanks for the opportunity, Jay
love in Jesus, Joseph
Jay, this is so right!!!!TO PRAY FOR ONE ANOTHER without ceasing is the
key
to tearing down the strongholds the enemy has used to keep us bound for
years as the church of Jesus Christ in this earth. Love motivates us to
PRAY, not to judge, just as Jesus prayed for us. I read something not
long
ago that struck a responsive chord deep in my soul. Besides praise,
there
are only two things that go on before the throne of God. At His RIGHT
hand
are those who intercede and at His LEFT are those who accuse. The enemy
accuses us one to another and to God, and accuses us to God, and accuses
God to us. Those who love will be pleading with God on behalf of their
brethren (wayward or otherwise) always seeking mercy, and pleading with
the
"world" on behalf of the Father, always seeking LOVE to prevail.
Pleading
with men to listen, to just SEE and to HEAR the true GOD who loves and
seeks to save. That is the spirit of intercession. To stand in the
gap,
an interpreter so to speak, between God and man. How I long to be that
person the Lord is to us, and only by grace can that ever happen in our
lives. WE ARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, CREATED FOR GOOD WORKS IN
CHRIST.....each
of us, we are HIS hands, HIS feet, HIS VOICE to this world as we allow
HIS
SPIRIT to flow through us, as rivers of living water, eternal springs of
LIFE....CHURCH, we have to wake up! If we ever hope to change the
world,
we have to live what we profess to be, BE and LIVE....that is the heart
of
true FAITH (to BELIEVE....or in other words, to BE and LIVE)....I am
trusting the Lord at this point. I know that HE IS ABLE to KEEP THAT
which
we have committed to HIM until the glorious day of HIS appearing. Now
we
are the ones who need to WALK out the reality of what we TALK....each
and
every one of us!!!! That means love, more mercy, less judgement, more
understanding, and definitely a whole, whole lot more prayer on the part
of
every believer. Do we really love those who are our pastors? If not,
we
may need to find another church and make sure we are with a pastor we DO
love, and that will come only through one who truly LOVES us. You know.
It's instinct to KNOW when you are LOVED....LOVE is BEGOTTEN, not
made....that one thing I do know is absolutely TRUE! Blessings, Karen
Thanks for the accountability Jay. We all need it including myself
In Christ
I would like to share with the group exactly what the Lord placed upon
my heart this past
week in prayer. I was in my room letting the music I was listening to
minister to my spirit
when God placed it upon my heart to pray about certain things for my
pastor. After praying
these things God put on my heart, He spoke again saying, "Now pray the
same things for
your life!" I was blown away with His response. I have been thinking
this past week on what
the Lord has said, and it makes a lot of sense. Simply put; if we cannot
pray the same things
for our lives that we are praying for our leadership, we shouldn't be
praying them. This helps
to put an end to word curses. whether they are incidental or
intentional. Think about it. Are
we actually speaking things out to God about our pastors and other
leadership that we
shouldn't? Or are we speaking things to truly edify their lives.
In Christ's faithful service,
Testing the spirits in the church today can be a most difficult thing.
The
great falling away of the church begins with the strong delusions
brought on
by God Himself for so called truth as one twists Biblical doctrine for
their
interpretation.
We as individual members of Christ's body must once again begin to base
our
experience on the written word and not the written word on our
experience(s). It is we who must check ourselves and not interpret
scripture
to fit our needs.
One of the hardest things a Christian can do today is detect truth from
falsehood. As the children of Israel we too our falling into the trap of
allowing false prophets to guide us. As they speak peace and prosperity
God
himself is readying His judgment for this modern day Sodom and Gommorah.
Fruit of the Spirit must always be the true evidence of the Spirit
filled
life, yet Biblically everyone Baptized in the Holy Ghost spoke in
tongues.
This is not to say that this or any other gift cannot be counterfeited
but
that is just not the point here.
Does a God who does not change himself change His methods. would this
bring
division and confusion to the body or unity. Everyone who truly sought
the
baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues has
received just that. God can do what He wants but I would feel much
better
backing any prophecy up with the scriptures as the final authority.
A man who does this is not guilty of sin if his teaching truly comes
from
the Bible. Those that need to humble themselves and ask forgiveness are
those
that have wrongly questioned him. If there were any wrongs on his part
God
will deal with him. Pride, division, and flesh will surely kill a
revival but
lets really look where they are coming from.
Division is not of God and I would truly have to believe that for the
sake
of revival God would not stir up such a conflict. When souls are at
stake
what does speaking in tongues matter.
As a closing thought I have to say that I speak in tongues and prophecy.
Neither gift ministers life without love. That is what I am hearing a
lack
of and that concerns me.
By the way I really enjoy this. I hope to hear from you soon.
Hi Jay,
Jay, I believe your commentaries and some of the responses you are
getting
prompt me to ask you a question: Do we really need churches today?
Thanks
so much for including me in your discussions. Your e-mails concerning
the
praying for pastors, and the praying for pastors II, really leads one
to
wonder if there is, in fact, a need for churches. Where did I get that
from? Well, you made the statement: "Exactly what is this new thing
that we
are to bring to the world? Does anyone know the lyrics to our new song?
It
is a symphony, an orchestrated melody of angels and saints. Do we know
the
tune, or are the churches just singing the same tired old song?" Jay,
this
is an extremely powerful passage; one that does more than question the
validity of the established doctrines of "religion"; it begs for a
deeper
and more profound meaning in our purpose.
Now, don't get me wrong - I am not disputing the healthy contributions
the
church is making to the body of Christ at all times. But does Psalm 23
not
say that, "The Lord is my Shepherd..."?
As for the discussions about pastors and others in the church, or the
Five
Fold Ministry, I will lean on the scripture from 1 John 3:6, which
reads,
"No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows
Him."
Bill Caraway
It has been said man cannot live by bread alone
but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Communion and
being satisfied by the word is not enough for truly God has said give
your bread unto the poor. Peter had denied Christ Thrice, and thrice
Christ said Simon do you love me more than these, Simon said you know,
Christ then says Feed my sheep and does this for every time he denied
him.
We were like Cain, Christ like Abel. We must now till the grounds to feed
his sheep and do the work of our brother who was slain also. Not because
of any other reason but to do that in which our brother would have us do
and even requested. Man cannot live by bread alone but yes, he needs
bread to live.
I will tell you the truth, until I found your site I thought I was the
only one who knew these things. I am in total joy now. I admit I wanted
to die because everyone thought I was a Freak, and lost many friends
along the way. I smoke cigarettes and drink every now and then, I wanted
this life to end because we need to work for God but the wax of Idols
filled their ears and they think every religious person is another
Koresh.
Do you know of anyone in this area (Detroit Metro) in which you could
refer me to in which they can help me get back on the right track?
Bless you I found other lights in this darkness and I believe a change
for the good will take place soon.
Enoch77 (Eric Ison)
Dearest Brethren,
It has been my thoughts that a pastor while on the Apostolic level, is a
ministry that is shared with the local assembly minister(Elders),
sharing is
not really the right word. When I see this relationship of the Apostolic
Pastor and a Elder I see the anointing oil coming down over Abraham's
beard.
Does this make sense to you? I hope so.
I have grown up in a church that you may have heard of in the past, for
in
my churches history we see the church you belong to get started. The
church
is Global Missions Inc. it is based in N. Battleford, Sask. Canada.
At the church grounds is a place for a school, orphanage, with living
quarters
for those who venture up there for church meetings held in the
Tabernacle
there on the grounds. The great revival that ensued there in 1948
started
something that the world has never seen prior to this, for prophecy,
singing
in the spirit, laying on of hands for the issuing of gifts and
ministries
were once again offered to man. And the world has not been the same
since. Praise God!
I have enjoyed your web page, and marvel at reading it that it like
reading
one of own Sharon Star's. And while I am sure that there is some things
that
we may differ in, I can feel a tremendous pull of the Spirit, assuring
me
that we have like spiritual doctrines.
I await new mailings in the future. May God bless you and your
endeavor's.
Gods Richest Blessings
Yes, I do pray for my pastor as well as others. I even pray for those
whom
appoint themselves or allow men to appoint them. My pray is Lord reveal
unto them your power, grace, and mercy. Have mercy on those that
appoint
themselves or allow men to appoint them. Truly they do not understand
what
is in store for them. Shield them despite their ignorance.
For those that are truly call, I ask that the Lord reveal to them what
you
have in store for them. Give them wisdom, understanding, discernment,
and
above all agape love for their congregations, and fellow pastors.
Direct
their paths oh Lord for they shall be persecuted. Teach them to be
teachable. Show them how to incline their ears to you. Let them be
strong
men and women of God. Teach them how not to condemn one another because
someone disagrees with them. Show them how to put your Word to the
test.
Louise Duhon
Jay:
A word about pastors from someone who is one.
I've noticed in my ministry a lot of church members who regard
the pastor as the
"vicarious Christian." Simply put, they expect the pastor to be the
christian for them. Hence,
much criticism about what a pastor should and should not be, from some
folks who are or are not
the ideal they desire for the pastor.
I fervently believe in the priesthood of all believers. I was
ordained a pastor; I was
baptized a minister (or priest), as was every believing Christian.
I hope one day that we'll learn to drop the fixation on pastors
as the ones who are
responsible for bringing about ministry. That task belongs to every
Christian. Its easy to
have a prophecy and "reveal" it to the pastor, expecting something to
get done. A person who
does such needs not take personal responsibility for their "revelation."
I look for those who
"do" the will of God, not for those who feel they have the right to be
armchair quarterbacks.
Christ is the only quarterback in the church. The pastor preaches,
teaches, administers the
sacraments, provides pastoral care. The pastor is not "responsible" for
the faith of every
Christian. For that we all must take accountability before God.
I sometimes feel that it would be better if we eliminated
ordained ministry altogether.
Sometimes even an implied hierarchy gives us pastors abuse power, or
pastors who are used as
scapegoats. Perhaps a much flatter ecclesiology would eliminate both
problems.
Pastor Ed Stone
July 6, 2000
Ap77joseph@cs.com
Lawrence Provost
enoch777
Jeffery
I can honestly say that I did pray for the Pastors out here on the front
lines. And I prayed that these pastors would deliver the word of God
with
the force that is necessary to change our lives and the lives of those
who
are not in the body. I read the enlightening and passionately prosed
e-mail
response of Mr. Ivan Poulter. I was really moved by his exhortation to
the
saints to do as Paul commanded us so many centuries ago..."to put on the
armor of God and go do battle against the enemy!" (smile) What a great
way
to combat the evil that is infiltrating our churches and leadership in
the
churches today!
I have never wrote to you prior to this, in fact this is the first
mailing I
have received from you since signing on.
The role of "pastors" is not to be thought of as being above the other 5
fold ministries mentioned. In fact all those mentioned in Eph. are part
of
the Apostolic ministry. And they need to all be submissive to each
other,
and endeavor to work together to make the body that which our Lord would
have us to be" the full measure of Christ".
Elder Chuck ThomasLatter Rain Discussion Archives
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