Manifest Sons and Theosis
The responses say it all. Linda spoke of Theosis last time, Dean
responded and more from Linda. Then everyone - almost - pretty much
agree on justification by faith and the process of sanctification. It
was mentioned that we are "all" justified and sanctified, but better is
what was also mentioned in that we are all justified and being
sanctified. The true manifest doctrine of sons "doctrine" has been
misinterpreted in the past so we should get it right this time. There
are some introductions and manifest sons insights below that are real
good. It is Jesus that was sent to overcome puritanical thinking. The
more like Jesus we become, the more divine we are. He unites Our
brokenness as the bread of His body and joins our spirit with the blood
of His veins. The Manifest Sons really are called to unite and prepare
the Body for sanctification as the Bride and we are a part of that
whole, although the church does need to be defined more clearly. More
and more, those getting out of Babylon need to know the way of holiness
and restoration. Be thinking of discussing plans of action toward
empowerment that some in this group seem to want to take.
Jay
Manifest Sons and Theosis:
Hi Jay and list.
Declaration or Transformation?
"The English verb "justify" comes straight from the
Latin justificio which is a verb that belonged to the
Roman law courts. The noun justificatio from which we
transliterated the English word "justification" means
that an accused person is pronounced free of
condemnation and punishment. It was an essential part
of the Roman Catholic doctrine of the atonement, and
justification by faith alone became the rallying
crying of the Reformation." Did Paul Teach Law Court
Justification? Robert Brow
So the problem is that our English word comes from a
Latin, and not Greek word, and this Latin word has the
idea of a pronouncement, whereas the Greek has the
view of making righteous.
If this is true, and I believe it is, then this would
mean that Protestantism has fundamentally
misunderstood salvation. Only the line of the
Arminian, Pietist, Wesleyan, Pentecostal and Latter
Rain movements have restored the apostolic foundation
in this area, and this line of truth has been rejected
by most evangelicals today.
What is true justification? It is having our hearts
and natures transformed through faith. It is a
purification through faith. The Word says 'And put no
difference between us and them, purifying their hearts
by faith.' Acts 15:9
But what do Protestants say? They do not tend to see
faith so much as a transformation of nature. Some go
as far as to say that we believe with our minds, when
the Scripture says we believe with our hearts.
Justification then becomes an intellectual belief,
resulting in God declaring us righteous (or so it is
hoped). People are then told that it doesn't matter if
you don't feel anything, just accept it by faith. But
the word says that if we have passed from death to
life, then we have the witness within ourselves, even
the Spirit of the Father, crying out in our hearts and
bearing witness with our spirits that we are children
of God. When Protestants understand faith as being
from the heart, and of causing an inner change, then
the doctrine of Justification by Faith is the
liberating doctrine known to man. But when is it
perverted and corrupted it is a damnable heresy. No
wonder Wesley said that mental assent is the
counterfeit of heart faith.
Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos says of
Protestants:
"They suppose that believing in God, intellectually,
constitutes salvation. Yet salvation is not a matter
of intellectual acceptance of truth; rather it is a
person's transformation and divinization by grace."
http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b15.en.orthodox_spirituality.01.htm
This is where Theosis comes in. Theosis is the
transformation of our nature to be like His. It means
"sharing the divine nature". This does not mean
becoming God, or being transformed into his essence,
but being transformed by his divine energies.
I suspect that it is this understanding which has kept
Orthodoxy from experiencing anything comparable to the
Reformation.
God's purpose has from the beginning to bring many
sons to glory. How can we be sons, accept by becoming
like him?
Irenaeus
Clement of Alexandria wrote, "Yea, I say, the Word of
God became a man so that you might learn from a man
how to become a god
Athanasius
The Word was made flesh in order that we might be
enabled to be made gods .... Just as the Lord, putting
on the body, became a man, so also we men are both
deified through his flesh, and henceforth inherit
everlasting life
"He gave us divinity
Augustine
St Symeon the New Theologian (tenth century)
Martin Luther
commentary on Galatians 3:9,
Dictata super Psalterium
Methodist Hymn (Charles Wesley)
C. S. Lewis,
"The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor
is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to
make us into creatures that can obey that command. He
said (in the Bible) that we were "gods" and He is
going to make good His words. If we let Him--for we
can prevent Him, if we choose --He will make the
feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess,
dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all
through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love
as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror
which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of
course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power
and delight and goodness. The process will be long and
in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for.
Nothing less. He meant what He said. "
Paul Crouch (Trinity Broadcasting Network)
Kenneth Hagin
Dean Furlong
May we lavish upon one another the Grace of Jesus
St. Kyril of Alexandria:
Dear Jay and list,
The Lord continues to bring division, even as He said He would, and yet,
those
being "called out" are being gathered into His Sheepfolds of faith. This
quote
by one of the Eastern Orthodox fathers expresses what I have experienced
and
believe: that just as iron plunged into fire becomes FIERY.. so we also,
immersed in Union with our Beloved manifest His Loveliness, His Beauty,
His
Power, His Holiness. It is not about us.. it is about HIM. We become
like Him,
although not in His Divine Essence, but through His Energies, His
Graces, we
partake of His Divine Nature.. becoming Fiery as the iron inserted into
the
fire become like the Fire... taking on the characteristics (Name/Nature)
of the
Fire.
His Fiery Love consumes in us all things which cannot remain in His
Presence.
The Bride has been coming through a time of purification and cleansing
-- as
His Relentless Grace searches out every root of self-love in our
hearts...
every idol, every bit of false "self" we have created to cover ourselves
with
(fig leaves).. bringing all the darkness in our hearts, out into the
Light,
that we might, through the Living Work of the Cross, cry for the Holy
Spirit to
put to death these "misdeeds of our body"... a "flesh crucifixion" which
has
already been accomplished in Christ Jesus... yet we are to appropriate
it by
our faith. We lay hold of by faith that which Jesus has already done and
in
this faith-action, His Victory is manifested in our flesh, and one more
degree
of darkness is consumed in His Fiery LOVE! Over and over this has been
happening as the Lord will have a pure and spotless Bride.. He has been
doing
this hidden work, that only the Bride knows of, yet when He is ready...
the
Glory shall be manifested and the LIGHT shall come forth, Love's
Vengeance
released through the Bride/Sons to consume the evils that continue to
hold
others of His Heart captive!
This is the unveiling, the revealing... for HE is peeling from our
bodies, all
that had kept Him hidden. As we by faith, embrace this
sanctifying-cleansing
work of the Holy Spirit, we are engrafted into the Crucified One, that
when He
says the Word, we shall come forth in the Light of the Transfiguration,
even as
He is. Jesus shall come forth to be glorified in His Holy People.. those
who
truly did Love Truth... for without the Love of Truth, they would have
fallen
back into ease and complacency... but these, "the saints and the
faithful"..
were willing to face the truth about themselves, and in true humility,
having
seen the utter depravity of their hearts, they could then be birthed
into Unity
of the Trinity!
The Eastern Orthodox teach that it is only a remnant of the Church who
press on
into this Union in Love... not all are willing to pay the price. Not all
are
willing to endure the Fiery works of Love... but there have been some in
every
generation who have overcome. These we shall see manifested on the
earth, as
Jesus comes to restore His Name.. and to be glorified in His Holy
People... in
His Nachal, in His Inheritance. The sons who grew up from the Seed He
planted
in death.. they too rise up in new LIFE.. and that Quickening LIFE they
shall
impart to others, as they go forth In His Name/Nature, fully submitted
to Him,
even as a son is to a Father. This is the Day of His Revealing.. May we
rejoice
that we are awake and in Love, for all the heavens long to see what we
shall
see. your sister Linda the Beguine.
( Jay, by way of introduction: I am 50, married, mother of 4 and
spiritual
mother to many, Christian of 42 years, Spirit filled for 28 years,
Baptized in
the Love of God in 1990, and reborn again
to join my e-mail discussion group:
My name is Richard Breazeale, and I go by the name Lazarus. It fits
me, for I was dead, but now I am alive in Messiah Yeshua.
I have no wisdom to add to this list other than what my Lord may give
through me when and if He wills. My knowledge and understanding is
totally dependent upon His good pleasure to give or not give.
I am at a place in this walk where I feel I am coming to the end of
myself. And I hear this small still voice say, YES! Self....crucified
with Him near 2000 years ago..and still struggling to live.
I am encouraged when I read Pauls trials and testings in this area of
the
walk in Romans. I praise the Lord for revealing to His people through
His
Apostles and Prophets their own lack and imperfections as they walked
and
often ran towards Him.
Yes, I am justified by the work done at the cross. And I am being
sanctified by laying hold of the truth of that work in faith and trust.
Without running from it. And allowing Him to work it in and through me.
All of Him, from Him, to Him.
To KNOW that of myself I can do nothing aside or apart from that eternal
act of love and mercy upon mankind that means anything.
Prayer? We all have need of lifting up each other to never think we have
come beyond the cross and have no need of looking to it, to Him.
I seek to look to things eternal, to put behind me things of this flesh
and its ways. To see so far beyond this temporal life that I can not but
walk in the spirit. Not having achieved this yet what can I do but press
on? He has the words of life.
There are many words out there these days. Many, many words. Everybody
wants to be a prophet, an apostle. No one hardly knows what that means
as
yet. But in a word it ultimately means to 'serve'. A servant to all, a
fool for many, a man acquainted with sorrows and suffering, finding
eventually His only joy in Messiah and following Him, knowing Him. A
sent
servant/slave of the Gospel of Yeshua Messiah.
Manifest sons of God? These will be those who have been consumed in the
fires of His word and presence. Until there is nothing left but His
light, His glory, no seeking of it for themselves at all. Those this
world is not worthy of.
Those who are obedient, nothing more, nothing less. Willing to lose all
for the high calling of Messiah Yeshua. Those who have come to know and
realize there is nothing else worthy, or needed.
Down and out? No. Tired, weary? Maybe some. Expectant? You Bet! All
births come through much travail and labor. If not then it is most
likely
a false alarm. So I praise Him! For He is worthy to be praised!
So whats next? What exactly is being birthed? For once I can honestly
say
I haven't a clue. But something inside of me tells me something big is
up
with the Lord. Something that will totally bewilder and amaze even those
who see and hear so well.
I keep hearing, 'the zeal of the Lord will accomplish this...!' and that
it will be such that no man can say it was of man, all will know it was
of the Lord.
Everywhere I go right now He is doing something when two or more gather
together in His name. Not their name, not for their blessings or to give
their words. But just to share and hear from each other what they are
feeling in the Lord. Suddenly! He just starts speaking, through His
people.
The only place I dont find this is where there is any self glorying
coming from any. In that case I feel a deep lacking of His presence and
a
deep desire to leave in myself. Perhaps it is even the Spirit allowing
them to have their glory..for now.
Just think, no one being the center of attention, and everyone becoming
so overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit within that they leave later saying,
'WOW! Did you get that!?' 'Wasn't that amazing?' Seeing the pieces come
together in revelation which brings one to where they can't set still,
can't not preach or proclaim His majesty?
Well anyway, just thought I would introduce myself. And share a little
of
what is happening right now in the body.
Press in and gather together in His name. Check yourselves in at the
door
and let Him move through you! Just hang together, love one another, and
lay hold of this thing.
Be blessed in Messiah Yeshua.....laz
I also think that [Unidentified site] website is disgusting. Direct misquotes
are illegal; but how much protection does anyone have on the Internet
with
regard to such things? Who would enforce it? And would that, then,
violate
the 'free speech for all' motto of the Web?. Someone, if not Mr. Joyner
himself, could insist on a correction at least. It seems to me,
however,
that for every valid teaching, gift, etc., Satan makes certain there is
a
directly-opposite sort of counter! The Word says 'we wrestle not with
Flesh
and Blood'. Our Enemy walks about both as a roaring lion and an angel
of
light, capable of deafening spiritual ears and blinding spiritual eyes.
And
he is very good at smokescreens, delusions, and twisting Scripture
itself;
why should we be surprised if he twists and perverts our words? )
We, of a 'Charismatic' background, realize that being 'saved' brings
with it
'being born of the Spirit'; but that 'the Baptism in the Holy Spirit'
and
'being filled with the Holy Spirit' are 2 totally separate things. But,
the
Traditional, non-Charismatic church does NOT know this. They believe
all of
this happens all at once, to everyone, in a once-and-for-all total
package.
But, they also believe that there are no Gifts, or Manifestations, or
Five-Fold Ministry, thinking these were all for Biblical times only.
They
are being deluded by Satan. The Bible tells us that 'the Holy Spirit
will
teach us' and 'lead us into all Truth'. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit
occurs once, of course, but 'the infilling' or 'being filled with the
Holy
Spirit' is an ever-on-going experience.
Sanctification is what happens
when
we voluntarily and deliberately ask the Lord to do what David asked Him
to
do, then permitted Him to do, in the Psalms ( i.e.: 'search me', 'try
me'....). This, also, is an ongoing process. We are also told in the
Word, to 'present ourselves a Living Sacrifice' to the Lord. If we do
this,
presenting ourselves mind, body, soul and spirit, as a Sacrifice to the
Lord, should He not also have the right and the permission to search,
correct, root-out, adjust, heal and restore us? Since we are made in
His
Image, we always have our Free Will; and this has a way of clashing with
His! The Psalms of David illustrate this ongoing, sometimes difficult,
process very well, as does the book "Rees Howells Intercessor" ( 2 good
ones
to read and study. ) These weren't 'perfect people', and they knew they
weren't. Neither are we. The Lord loved David's spirit: Why? Because
David had an open, childlike way of talking to the Lord. He said what
he
thought, he said what he felt, good or bad, wrong or right. He also
honored
the Lord, and gave Him full access to ALL of David; maybe not all at
once,
and maybe not always without a fight, but he was convinced that the way
to
go was the Way of the Lord. If he sinned, he confessed and repented, and
he
went on, not perfect, but stronger and more beautiful than before. And
when
David danced before the Lord, nothing, but nothing, but nothing, stood
between him and the Lord! He was worshipping 'In Spirit and in Truth'.
David is our example.
RevDeb
Hello Jay,
My name is John Earp. I am 33 years old. I am a
fifth-generation Pentecostal preacher. I am currently
ordained with the CoG of Cleveland, TN. My heritage
is primarily from the A/G and CoG, though, my
great-grandparents were from the Pentecostal Holiness
Church. One thing that is very interesting to me
personally is that many of our direct ancestors were
circuit-riding Methodist preachers in the 1800s, and
literally traveled all over the SW U.S., preaching,
distributing Bibles and literature as well as working
"real jobs" when necessary. ;)
Though I was raised in a pastor's home, and did
receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit at age 16, I
have only served the Lord steadily as a Christian for
the past 10 years, during which time I have been
praise & worship leader, Bible study leader, associate
pastor, and pastored for two years, until I almost had
a nervous breakdown, I was so burned out. Perhaps the
biggest factor in my burn out was the fact that my
wife of only a few months decided she didn't want to
be married to a preacher after all, and divorced me
after less than six months together.
My heart and life were mightily refreshed when I
visited Brownsville A/G in October of 1996, and I have
truly never been the same.
Because I do not wish to get back into pastoring again
while still single, I have chosen to remain in
ministry primarily working as a music minister as well
as an associate pastor, which I have done for the past
three years.
I currently live in Ypsilanti, MI, where I am an
associate at Willow Run CoG. My primary
responsibilities are oversight of our benevolence
ministry, which involves supervision of a large
warehouse in which we collect, store, and distribute
food for the hungry, both in our local area and
through our networks around the world. It is truly a
rewarding ministry.
I also have been graciously asked to be responsible
for our midweek Bible studies for the past several
months, which gives me a great outlet for teaching
ministry. Most of what I do know just involves giving
out free food, though. I love it.
I have for the past several months been studying
especially the writings of Charles Finney, noted
revivalist of the 1800s. My greatest interest has
always seemed to be Christian history, and
specifically, Revival history, and so Wesley,
Whitefield, Finney, and Moody are some of my most
studied persons. Not to mention Pentecostal and
charismatic history, which I find to be one of the
most fascinating studies of all. Parham, Seymour,
Lake, Wigglesworth, MacPherson, and the 50s Voice of
Healing personalities are my most favorite to study.
I also love very much Bonhoeffer, whose writings never
cease to challenge me to radical discipleship.
Of all I would have to say that Finney is the most
well-rounded, in the sense of presenting stunningly
logical yet powerful sermons. His systematic approach
to entire sanctification or perfection never ceases to
bring conviction and encouragement to me that I can
accomplish far more in Christ than my human mind can
imagine. All things truly are possible to him that
believeth!
Which leads me to the issue at hand; that of the
"manifest sons of God" teaching. While I am not
completely familiar with all the shades of meaning
involves in this concept, I do have a question to ask
those who hold to this teaching, or at least those who
understand what is taught and expected to happen when
this manifestation occurs.
I have heard some say that those who become the
"manifest sons of God" will have such a transformation
of their physical body while here on earth that they
have what sounded to me like resurrection bodies
(spiritual bodies; 1 Cor. 15:44) while yet here on
earth. This seems to contradict, to me, the
scripturally well-attested belief that "when He shall
appear, we shall see him as he is," and "be changed in
a moment...this corruption shall put on incorruption,
and this mortality shall put on immortality."
I really don't know, as I don't think I've ever heard
anyone actually teach this sort of thing personally,
and I would really like to know what the real teaching
on "manifest sons" really is. When God called me to
preach at age 20, I saw visions which would lead me to
believe that there certainly is coming a new breed of
prophets, apostles, and evangelists, and they will
literally traverse the globe as flaming ministers of
fire. This is what the Lord showed me so many years
ago. I regret to say that I fell away for a couple of
years in my early 20s, primarily as a reaction to the
divorce of my parents and the destruction of my dad's
ministry at the time, but praise God, the Holy Spirit
wouldn't let me go that easily.
As far as sinless perfection goes, I do believe
sinless perfection to be attainable in this life, but
I do not think of this as anything less than a
dynamic, progressive walk in Christ and in the Spirit,
"so that ye do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh." I
do not hold to (nor do any Wesleyans or Arminians I
know of) the idea that once sinless perfection is
achieved that it is something which a person cannot
lose through willful disobedience.
I understand every day to present new situations in
which we are to learn how to follow the way of Christ
as delineated in the Sermon on the Mount especially.
And so if a person were to go one day fulfilling this
by walking in the Spirit, they would nevertheless face
tomorrow, and the day after, and so on, with each day
presenting new challenges and opportunities to show
the love of Christ. And so I personally don't think
that we will ever be a finished product this side of
heaven, but at the same time I don't see the
"sinning-all-the-time Christianity" as being
scriptural either.
I also do believe emphatically in the five-fold
ministry, though my denomination is not quite up to
speed on this issue yet, especially the subject of
modern-day apostles. I do believe we must be careful
who we accept as a prophet or as an apostle, to be
sure, but by the same token we must be careful about
any minister we come across. As Christ said, "By
their fruits you shall know them." (Matt. 7).
I hope to be both challenged and encouraged within
this group. I promise my subsequent posts will be
much shorter. ;) Thanks to all for bearing with my
long epistle here.
God bless,
John Earp
Jay,
There is no special way that each comes to Christ as "we have all sinned
and
come short". However, in my Father's mind as it had been from the
foundation
of the world, the calling is different, as we see in Jeremiah. "Before
ye
were born, I knew you.." I believe in the calling and finally the
choosing is
where the difference lies. Paul refers to us all as saints and a person
who
lives the life of holiness is a saint (sanctified-separated), but not
necessarily a manifest son. I read some of the doctrines in the
suggested Web
site and was very disappointed at the confusion of thinking. This leads
to
more questions than answers.
Justification and sanctification is not a hierarchy doctrine given to
some,
but given to all because Christ went to the cross for all not some. We
are
on dangerous ground when we slip into the "holier than thou" attitude.
This
is one of the biggest heresies separating the churches today among
pride,
doctrines and traditions of men. I will rejoice with great gladness when
the
Sons of God unite the Church into one. However, are the manifest Sons
really
called to unite and prepare the Bride? Heaven help us when we unite in
such a
way that we end up like Nimrod and the tower of Babel (against God).
Unity is pleasing to God. But unity has to come under the leadership of
Jesus
Christ, not a "Ministry" or individual. We can be united in heart by
solid
doctrine, and yet be strong enough to attend a different worship
building.
Kind of like my wife and I are separated for months sometime because of
military deployments, yet we are of the same mind and Spirit. We are
separated yet together!! I see that many ministries are made of men
especially the ones trying to "unite" everyone under their own selfish
self!
Unity comes with laying down self and pride with sacrifice. I do not
think
that we are all ready to do that yet. The church hasn't been together
since
Cain and Able fought. What makes us think we can do it now? We can try,
but
one thing we must do is get real and return to "simplicity with power"
instead of "extravagance with mammon". How pleased Dad would be if we
got rid
of the clergy/laity separation, for instance, and got off our high
horse, and
stop separation doctrines. We are all justified and sanctified. Some
fake it
just like they faked repentance, but the wheat must grow with the tares.
Let
the reapers (angels) handle that.
Well, I believe I preached too long. God bless all. Thanks Jay for this
discussion. More to follow later if the Spirit leads. Love in Jesus,
Joseph
Jay, Being a new person on your site, I will keep my comments brief.
When God calls us, He justifies us, or makes us just-as-if we
had never sinned. See Rom. 8:30. We are then covered by the blood of
Jesus, and are made right in the sight of God.
Sanctification is the process of being made holy, and that is the work
of a lifetime as we study God's Word and submit to the
Lordship of Jesus Christ. I don't believe we will be perfect in this
lifetime except that we are covered by the perfection of Jesus. Of
our own merits, we are a total failure. Praise to God for His perfect
plan!! Joan McDaniels
Jay,
Jay,
I really don't have much to add to the recent discussions, but I
would like to
share what GOD is currently doing in my life that relates.
HE has shown me that unless we are willing to sacrifice to become the
BODY,
we can never be the BRIDE. This week I finished getting everyone in our
ministry
plugged into other congregations, and I have submitted myself to another
ministry
that is operating according to the Five -Fold Pattern. The HOLY SPIRIT
has shown
that we must be willing to sacrifice our positions (physically &
mentaly) if we are
to become what he desires us to be.
Yours In Christ,
Dear Jay...
Nancy Flanagan
Jay,
Bill Caraway
I was raised Catholic with 12 yrs of Catholic
schooling.
There waa a church split over a wayward pastor and now I am presently
content to
study on my own and I guess you could say I am taking sabbatical from
organized religion. I do miss group worship at times
but after a lot of prayer I accept the fact
that I am not led to make a change at this point.
It is somewhat frightening to me that I feel better by NOT attending
church. And since scripture tells me not to neglect
gathering together with believers - - I
am anxious about it.
Nancy
Nan and Steve
August 26, 2000
I agree with Linda about theosis. Let me backtrack a
little first.
As I understand it, the original people involved in the
Latter day rain movement denied the teaching of the
rapture, and spiritualized the meaning. This is why a
lot of evangelicals think that we don't believe it
either.
But what the Latter rain was saying is this - that
Adam was created in a state of perfection, but not
full maturity. That Adam had to grow up in all things
to the measure of the stature of Christ. When the fall
came, that purpose was still there, and we are to grow
up and become like him, and partake of the divine
nature, that we might be fully transformed. This will
eventually lead to the church fully walking in its'
divine authority, which is what the Latter rain
movement taught and stood for.
Protestants have invented a 'justification' which is
simply being declared righteous, called forensic
justification, which means it is a legal thing only. I
believe the Greek word 'justification' means 'being
made righteous', by a spiritual infusion, by a
transformation of the heart and of the nature through
faith. Protestants, especially Calvinists, condemn
this as Roman Catholic heresy.
Do we cast blame on him [God] because we were not made
gods from the beginning, but were at first created
merely as men, and then later as gods? Although God
has adopted this course out of his pure benevolence,
that no one may charge him with discrimination or
stinginess, he declares, "I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are sons of the Most High.".. . For it
was necessary at first that nature be exhibited, then
after that what was mortal would be conquered and
swallowed up in immortality.
"God became man so that men might become gods."
And again
We gave him humanity."
That is a quotation from Ephraim the syrian
"But he himself that justifies also deifies, for by
justifying he makes sons of God. 'For he has given
them power to become the sons of God' [John 1: 12]. If
then we have been made sons of God, we have also been
made gods
'He who is God by nature converses with those whom he
has made gods by grace, as a friend converses with his
friends, face to face.' . . .
The one who has faith is a completely divine man, a
son of God, the inheritor of the universe. He is the
victor over the world, sin, death, and the devil"
He deigns in flesh to appear
Widest extremes to join;
To bring our vileness near,
And make us all divine
And we the life of God shall know.
For God is manifest below.
"I am a little god. I have His name. I am one with
Him. I'm in covenant relation. I am a little god.
Critics begone."
"Man…was created on terms of equality with God, and he
could stand in God's presence without any
consciousness of inferiority…God has made us as much
like Himself as possible…He made us the same class of
being that He is Himself…Man lived in the realm of
God. He lived on terms equal with God…The believer is
called Christ…That's who we are; we're Christ!"
(Kenneth M. Hagin, Zoe: The God-Kind of Life (Tulsa,
OK: Kenneth Hagin Ministries, Inc., 1989), 35-36, 41.
The Love of the Father.. and the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit!
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"It is untrue to say that we cannot be one with God except by union of
will.
For above that union there is another union more sublime and far
superior,
which is wrought by the communication of the Divinity to man, who, while
keeping his own nature, is, so to speak, transformed into God, just as
iron
plunged into fire becomes fiery, and while remaining iron seems changed
into
fire.... Union with God cannot exist otherwise than by participation
with
the Holy Spirit, diffusing in us the sanctification proper to Himself,
imprinting and engraving on our souls the divine likeness."
In the preparation for my calling in this day, the Lord led me to the
study of
the Christian Mystics, and especially the "Beguines" with whom I
identify,
because our Lord identified me with them. He brought me to them to learn
the
Ways of Love. They were called the "Love-mystics" in the middle ages,
and
eventually their passion, devotion and adoration for our Lord Jesus
caused them
to be excommunicated from the Catholic Church. I would have to say, that
same
LOVE in me has caused me also to be "excommunicated" from my Protestant
upbringing too.
light-string-subscribe@egroups.com
I have no grand things to say about myself or my calling. But I have
grand boasts of my Lord Yeshua. I am a testimony of His grace and mercy
and love for His creation.
It's been a while since I got to write. The military keeps me very busy.
I have been reading and studying trying to understand what this is all
about.
About a year ago a prophet I met said to me that there are many children
of
God but very few Manifest Sons. This was the first time I had even
thought
there was a difference. Since then it has been on my mind. This
discussion is
helpful to me. Bless it.
I see that characters like Ezekiel and others of similar callings were
called
Son of man, as was Jesus. I see that God has children as well as Sons.
Just
as there are followers of Christ AND there are disciples of Christ. In
my
experience, these are very different.
I think you're right with one exception. God's answer to
puritanical thinking was to
send Jesus Christ. They had the temple and the beautiful stones. They
had the wide
phylacteries. They had the law and the oral law. They had the letter;
they lost the spirit.
Jesus hung out with the wretched refuse. He forgave the adultress, He
ate with sinners, and tax
collectors. He died as a common criminal. Others who came much later are
not necessarily
destroying puritanical extremism; when they're effective they're letting
the light of Christ
shine in that particular darkness.
Ed Stone
Gene
As I read the many comments made about the manifest sons of God, I
am
awed at the many gifts God has given to your contributors. To be honest
with
you, I never really knew there was a difference until you posed the
question.
Now I see it! "Sometimes the questions tell us more than the answers
ever
will".(a line from a song)
I just considered "all who are justified" to be on their way to
sanctification...the process...but there is a definate difference.
Thanks
for showing me.
Wilm. Delaware
I enjoyed your latest e-mail and the responses quite a bit. Light is
surely
being thrown on a lot of points that are new to me and I am grateful for
this. I believe that it is now time to define "the church" as you are
referring to it, and to allow the Lord to lead on from there. One thing
that puzzles me is that throughout this discourse many references are
made
to all kinds of denominations, and there is great emphasis on
non-denominational or evangelical teachings. I take heed of all
teachings
and I find good in each, yet there are many "practices" in each that are
highly questionable. I am not one to judge, because I know that I am
still
learning, but where are we going with this? The response from Mr. Edwin
Stube, "A Spotless Bride" touches on the point I am getting at. Mr.
Stube
says, "The truth of God is so great that no individual or group of
individuals can comprehend it all. Each denomination, church and group
of
believers has a portion of the truth."
I find this to be the case in many instances, but for some reason the
scripture of Jesus saying, "Where two or more are gathered in My name,
there
I am in the midst." Personally, I am thrilled at the prospects of this
line
of thinking. It blends in well with your thoughts on "Justification and
Sanctification." Saints can be found everywhere, not just in the midst
of a
particular denomination. But I say this cautiously, because Proverbs
tells
us, "There is a way which seems right to a man which leads to the path
of
destruction." Many church leaders and evangelists with whom I have
spoken
express the concern that the framework of my thinking is wrong because
God's
way is in church service, community service, and being led by a
particular
man. I do not agree with them. I don't hesitate in pointing out the
first
line of Psalms 23, "The Lord is my Shepherd."
Please define more clearly, "the church" as you are referring to it.
Thanks
for the feeding, Jay.
As an adult, I left the Catholic church
and raised my children Episcopalian and Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel. I
also spent 7 years as a Baptist; studied Eastern religions during my
spiritual wanderings. For the past
8 yrs. I've attended foursquare gospel where I led a Bible study for
two of those years. Latter Rain Discussion Archives
The Lord has given us the grace to reconcile the children to their Fathers
As One Body
Issue Oriented Discussion Newsletter
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