Holiness is the key
Holiness in the church is a process of repentance and spiritual accountability. Jesus did the first part by providing grace yet is still telling us to go and sin no more. Grace is not an excuse for licentiousness, it is foolish to think so and it is foolish to teach sexual immorality as an acceptable lifestyle in the church. To use licentiousness as a reason to avoid liberality is just as foolish. It leaves our own works apart from the spirit where we condemn the sinner instead of the sin. Love and tolerance toward the sinner is not accepting sin or Jesus would not have been without sin. They know not what they do unless they are told and the message is still the same, "go and sin no more." Liberality and licentiousness may not be compatible but it is the baby out with the bath water again.
If we write of a liberal agenda from the view of holiness, it changes the whole thing. I am talking about restoring the perfect and rejecting the extreme left and right. If holiness is the key, then we need to open the door and walk through to bring this discussion to a spiritual conclusion. I am hoping that explaining it in this way brings us closer to perfection, so let's turn the key. When enough of us start thinking like that, the manifest sons will make their appearance. You know that, right? All this stuff about politics and agendas, conservatives and liberals and homos and the like, put it somewhere else. Remember one thing from this dialogue, holiness is key and in this case, rejecting false labels is the holy act that will heal the division.
Since we are coming from a Bible view and not the world view, let's go on to our next question. What is the liberal agenda from the Bible and spiritual point of view? Search the scriptures and seek the Lord. It should be easy to forget the world view and your own political and moral agendas for now and concentrate on what is holy agenda. Right? Can we find a Christian view? Together, I know we can. All we need to do is hear from you.
Jay
Jay....you see homosexuls joining the church as "troubling'' are we talking the same homosexuals that are screaming and demanding that we be nice to them or they will take us to court for being hateful.... i.e. the new bill being pushed through by the Sven R. the politican from B.C. will put ANYONE, whehter its the truth or not..... in jail for up to two years if they speak out against homsexuality as put forth in the bible......as a hate crime.... ...............this is just the tip of an extremely rotten and malignant iceburg.....maybe the liberals started of in the beginging with high expectations and aspirations of freedom and justice for all, but even the simple of mind can understand that is not what is being portrayed by todays liberals....its disgusting and sickening what the liberals are pushing through and what they have done and are doing to our country....the conservatives dont have all the answers for sure,,,,who does but our God...but at least they stick to moral truths.. God can work out the rest of the stiffness,,,,be careful, and watchful lest even the elect are decieved...these are wicked times,,,,God will lift up the humble,,, but will resist the proud......He alone will judge man,,we must just stand firm and fast in the truth,,,
Hi There, I do admire your efforts, however futile, to bring us into a fuller understanding of spiritual matters of which Paul wrote he'd not have us ignorant.....but we are.. Shalom,
Thank you Venida, Truth will always win out in the end, so it is never futile. And I don't mind taking the unpopular side as long as I believe it is right. As long as one person comes out of that ignorance, I have done my job. Many liberals will stay licentious and many conservatives will remain illiberal. People will understand better as time goes by. Division is a spiritual problem in the church and the affairs and politics of the world sometimes get in the way. There will be no peace until the conflict is over. As soon as there is healing, we need to move to the next conflict. Jay
Ps. 119:45.---'I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.' Human society, like the world of Nature, is sometimes shaken by storms Very few people, it may be supposed, desire to live in a state of Such a situation is naturally disturbing to those whose only place of The claim to exercise this liberty of experiment is made on the ground The fact is that the claim to complete freedom of self-expression cannot We have to remember that mankind in the course of its long journey down Our best teachers are the aged. They are before us in the march of man; The centuries have taught the race many things which can be imparted to It has been worthy of note in recent years that certain well-known Our Lord Comes... Tim
Thanks for the "Nasty Liberals" it fit well with where I believe I am in my walk with God. I am more Liberal than many in Alabama, I am more Conservative than most Liberals. Guess that is a part of the reason I feel like an outcast. Much of my time is spent studying history, Old Testament, early American, jay@latter-rain has filled some hours study since finding your site. One thing in the Elijah Syndrome really caught my eye, I do not know of leading an unsaved soul to Christ, I have beat the bushes, visited hospitals, served in a feed the hungry program, always an eye to save the lost. I feel I am where God has sent me, I agree that is our greatest calling. Thank you and your staff for the blessing you are to me and others.
Dear Jay,
I think that the problem with the Church is it's reluctance to actually call sin sin! It also has completely ignored to a fault the ministry of Deliverance! The Bible says : My people are destroyed through lack of knowledge. Topics that the so called "Church Leadership" are afraid to delve into have created an open door for the demonic oppression to continue even in so called "Christians" lives, not to mention people who come from a drug, occultic, homosexual background, or other "addictive" bondages.
The Church is commissioned to Preach the Gospel and teach about the Kingdom of God just as Jesus did and set the captives free! Jesus taught about the Kingdom and then he demonstrated the Kingdom! In fact "these signs" shall follow "them that Believe" = #1) they shall lay their hands upon the sick= and they shall be healed #2) they shall cast out demons in my Name #3) They shall speak with other tongues. How often do you see these "signs" being performed by the "Believer's"??? Or taught about by the so called "Pastors"?????
The Body Of Christ needs to be "delivered" from the spirit of witchcraft and fear that has them bound. The veil must be pulled down and destroyed and the people loosed from it's power to decieve!!! The Bible declares = "The Gospel is not "word only" but "living by Power"!!!!! We are to be the light of the world and the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost it's flavor......what is it good for? Ignorance and Spiritual immaturity will not be an excuse for the sheep nor for the Pastor, and the Pastor will have more accountability than the average pew warmer! To whom much is given much is required! But we all must work out our own "salvation" with fear and trembling!!! Studying to show ourselves approved, and rightly dividing the word of God. Strong "dellusion" is sent to those who don't have a "love for the truth", and scriptually speaking it is rampant in the Church!!!! As false prophets and false teachers spew forth their doctrines of demons, decieving by demonic power even the elect if it were possible! The Spirit of Truth must be discerned from the spirit of error. The Great "falling away" are the double minded, double tongued and double hearted who are unstable in all their ways and swept away by every new wind of doctrine. They cannot "endure" sound doctrine because they have itching ears and give heed to seducing spirits! The hard truth is that we are even now the "Chosen Generation" that will see all the prophesies fulfilled, and we are now living in the End Times!! Even the Tribulation is before us at this very moment!!!! I truely believe that we are in the end of the "Church Age", the "Times of the Gentiles", the "Last Days" and the "First half of the Tribulation"!!!!! The Lord is coming soon.....are you ready???
j green
Jay:
AMEN! Keep up the good work I enjoy your emails. Also please add to your Prayer Request; we are having a Community Outreach in Peach Springs Az. which is the Haulapai Indian Reservation, any interested persons is invited to join us. We will be having Barbeque, Music and testimonies. sharing the Love of Jesus. God Bless; Ruby from Latter Rain Ministries from Kingman Az.
Jay, His name is Jesus. He is not "religious." He says the traditions of man are of no effect. Let's give the world a revelation of Him. He is all we need! God bless,
Jay, Ps 119:32
April 18, 2004
Le 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
Some are having a hard time understanding what I am trying to do here so I thought I would make it easier. It should not be that hard to make the connection that I am following a biblical point of view about the word liberal instead of a world view. It's easy to make a holy point when sin is recognized, denounced and taken out of the argument but the wisdom of the world cannot teach that, nor a church that has compromised with it. It's easy to restore the Bible view of the word liberal without bringing in all the hedonistic elements that so-called liberals have been credited for, just get rid of the labels. We need to take the Bible at it's word to see that God will be exalting the liberals in these last days and that we are to be a holy people. Liberality is a cornerstone of compassion and positive social action but liberality with anything less than holy will not be part of a perfect Bride.
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Sharon Riley
If you arelooking for a fight, I believe you are going in the right direction to find one..
I am so sick of politics; liberals , conservatives and moderates alike, that I could upchuck..
I've found out that born again spirit-filled Christians are ready to come to fisticuffs (?) over issues we know but very little about. My, my.. or is that 'woe is me'..
I like you, my brother, because of your stand on the Word of God, the Truth....You can rest assured that I will pray for you as you swim upstream......
You be anointed with the oil of gladness (You're gonna need it...grin..)
Venida O'Nan in Virginia
of such severity that after they have passed the whole face of things is
changed. Political parties are regrouped. A new social order takes its
rise. The commonwealth is rebuilt, not according to the ancient pattern,
but in a spirit of fresh and eager experiment, and in the hope that the
result may be not only a new but also a better world. It is in such a
period that our lot is cast today. The world is in travail, society is
being transformed. The industrial order is changing. New political and
economic problems are pressing for immediate attention. In every direction
experiments are being made.
political and social stagnation, for there are still so many wrongs in the
world to be righted, so many injustices to be remedied, so many evils to be
swept away; and there are some changes which every Christian heart would
certainly welcome as onward steps in the march of humanity to the end God
has in view. Yet even in regard to these social and political experiments
it ought to be remembered that the surest progress is by evolution and not
by revolution, by development and not by cataclysm, by process and not by
shock.
worship is the unlovely temple of comfort, but a far more sinister symptom
of our time is the readiness of so many people to experiment with life in
the realm of conduct, and in this sphere also to remove the ancient
landmarks. One does not refer to the new woman or equally new man who has
arisen in our midst, whose newness consists in an attitude of indifference
to certain social conventions. For social conventions only touch the
surface of life; they change from age to age; they do not reach the springs
of character. A social convention may collapse without any harm being done.
Indeed, it it has been a cloak for insincerity, or a means by which quite
healthy and legitimate instincts have been repressed, its disappearance is a
gain. But the really alarming feature in our life today is that so many men
and women seem determined to experiment not only with social conventions,
but also with those deep fundamental principles of conduct which the
individual cannot reject without self-injury, and the race cannot disown
without the risk of decay.
that every one is entitled to the right of self-expression, that it is good
and even courageous to live out that which is in us, and to express in
action every impulse and desire, even though this should involve a defiance
of public opinion and a glaring breach of the accepted code. In the sphere
of education self-expression is certainly an important word, for it denotes
a valuable method of developing the mental powers. Yet even in education
the method is useful only up to a certain point, for when a teacher comes,
as all true teachers must, within sight of the pupil's character, then
according to a high educational authority, "he must interfere with natural
development so as to produce a richer experience and a fuller exercise of
the higher powers." And when we pass entirely into the realm of character
this duty becomes more urgent and more plain. For we discover that there
are two selves---a higher self which aspires after goodness, and a lower
self which easily drags us down. To express and thus to develop the higher
self is our wisdom and our duty. But ought we to express the lower self
also? To do so is not wisdom. It is not even courage. It is folly of the
deepest kind. The one sane attitude to the lower self is repression. The
best method of repressing the lower self is doubtless to express the higher
self. But whatever the method, repressed the lower self must be.
be allowed. We are all free, but only within limits. No one can live well
in this world who acknowledges no law and bows to no authority, who breaks
every fetter and casts off every chain. Man is free to choose, but chiefly
to choose which master he will serve. And the strange paradox of life is
that service of the highest master and obedience to the highest law is the
way to real liberty as well as to inward peace. 'I will walk at liberty,'
said the Psalmist, not because he had thrown off every yoke; 'I will walk at
liberty: for I seek thy precepts.'
the ages has tested certain laws of life and found them to be true, and all
those who are now beginning the journey do well to receive these truths and
act upon them. The open road must bring us back to the beaten path. On the
subject of conduct there is a wisdom which comes from experience of life.
Experience has been compared to "the light of a lantern set in the stern of
a boat, illuminating the path we leave behind us." It is a thousand pities
that we do not inherit the fruits of experience as we inherit other things,
but to the lessons of experience in the lives of those who have gone before
us we do well to give heed.
they have more or less solved the irking problems; they have battled through
the equinox of life; in good and evil they have held to their course; and
now, without open shame, they near the crown and harbor. Their speech,
indeed, is timid; they report lions in the path; they counsel a meticulous
footing, but their serene, marred faces are more eloquent and tell another
story.
the individual as, at all events, a sound working basis for life; there is
no need for him to epitomize, in his own person, the laborious discoveries,
the mistakes, checks, and discouragements through which his forefathers
passed in the garnering of knowledge. The relation of honor between man and
woman; the value of hosesty; the worth of sincerity; the folly of deceit;
the after-joy of service; these truths are really not open to discussion.
Their value are an integral part of reality. They are elements in the moral
order of the world, against which man dashes himself in vain.
authors, who have conducted in their many experiments with life, have
reached in their later works a position not far from the Christian ideal.
To those who are whole-hearted believers in Jesus this occasions no surprise
but it is an acceptable confirmation of their view and a welcome
reinforcement of their faith. In the realm of conduct no one has been found
to take the place of Jesus Christ. He remains the one supreme Master who
offers to men a view of life which can be verified in experience, whose yoke
is easy, whose burden is light, and whose service is perfect freedom. To
submit to Jesus as the Master is to find that He is also the Savior. To
believe His word and patiently to do His will is to pass out of the
experimental stage into an assured knowledge of the way, the truth, and the
life.
and the life of Christ.
Don Ray
Does the right wing Christian who fights against the murder of the unborn child (fetus) collabortae with the enemy (devil) when it comes to this position?
David John
Phyllis Fountain
You have many words that are yours and not God's, His ways and thoughts are so much higher than ours. When will we stop our mouths and confess "let God be true and every man a liar".
When you say "we have lost our first love", you are providing a good example when you bring so much of your own words and not Gods. To love Christ is to love His Word and be in His Word, oh that we were drenched with His Word.
32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.
Blessed be His name.
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